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winston smith
George Bush is actually telling the truth: the rest of the world had seen exactly the same intelligence in the months leading up to his invasion of Iraq. Well, to a certain degree. I mean, I doubt if Chad or Bhutan, Monaco or Belize had bothered too much with the intrigues of Niger yellowcake or the irrational ravings of Curveball. But we can be somewhat assured that those nations concerned with events in the Middle East would have seen the intelligence. Germany, Russia, and France had, most certainly, which is why they chose not to join a coalition against Saddam. They saw the same intelligence, all of it, and came to the conclusion that Hussain was not a threat to anyone but his internal enemies.

For example, the Germans knew that Curveball was not credible and, according to the L.A. Times, were astounded when senior members of the Administration used his imaginary Winnebago chemical labs as evidence of an impending attack. The Brits, in spite of their ultimate participation, were well aware of the forged Niger documents.

Which can lead to only one real, rational, logical conclusion: Congress was not given the same intelligence reports seen by the rest of the world. At least, not the same as that seen by France, Russia, and Germany. Had the same information been forthcoming, perhaps our Congress might have come to the same conclusion as our erstwhile allies who decided to sit this one out.
amy
QUOTE(winston smith @ Nov 22 2005, 02:52 PM)
Which can lead to only one real, rational, logical conclusion: Congress was not given the same intelligence reports seen by the rest of the world.  At least, not the same as that seen by France, Russia, and Germany.  Had the same information been forthcoming, perhaps our Congress might have come to the same conclusion as our erstwhile allies who decided to sit this one out.
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Is that true, that the nations you mentioned saw intelligence not given to Congress? But, I don't know if the nations you mentioned had a document comparable to the U.S. Iraq liberation Act which made the removal of Saddam the formal policy of the U.S.government.
Although the ILA stipulates the removal of Saddam by means other than military intervention, it certainly set the tone for American policy towards Iraq. So, write the policy, have 100% yes vote from the Senators for the ILA, mix Bush in with that and voila', the U.S. has removed Saddam....The more I know, the less surprised I am by the entire sequence of events...i still don't agree with the invasion, but I can see how events led right up to this war...
dennisjames
It's like they're asking us to believe they are ignorant and stupid. Granted. It's also easy to believe they are just not telling the whole truth. embarrased.gif
winston smith
QUOTE(amy @ Nov 22 2005, 01:37 PM)
Is that true, that the nations you mentioned saw intelligence not given to Congress? But, I don't  know if the nations you mentioned had a document comparable to the U.S. Iraq liberation Act which made the removal of Saddam the formal policy of the U.S.government. 
Although the ILA stipulates the removal of Saddam by means other than military intervention, it certainly set the tone for American policy towards Iraq.  So, write the policy, have 100% yes vote from the Senators for the ILA, mix Bush in with that and voila', the U.S. has removed Saddam....The more I know, the less surprised I am by the entire sequence of events...i still don't agree with the invasion, but I can see how events led right up to this war...
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It's an intelligent guess that they had the same, or at least similarly configured, intelligence- the point being that the intelligence given to Congress did not have the same information as that seen elsewhere. Or, to look at it from a different perspective, if Congressman X heard from one source that Saddam had mobile labs but that at least one other sources said the informant was wacko, then would that Congressman have believed it? Maybe, maybe not.

But if the Congressman was never told about how wacko Curveball was, then he would accept on the good word of the President that these labs existed.
amy
QUOTE(winston smith @ Nov 22 2005, 05:41 PM)
It's an intelligent guess that they had the same, or at least similarly configured, intelligence- the point being that the intelligence given to Congress did not have the same information as that seen elsewhere.  Or, to look at it from a different perspective, if Congressman X heard from one source that Saddam had mobile labs but that at least one other sources said the informant was wacko, then would that Congressman have believed it?  Maybe, maybe not. 

But if the Congressman was never told about how wacko Curveball was, then he would accept on the good word of the President that these labs existed.
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I have to look up again the UN debate about Iraq..maybe there's info in the statements of the Security Council members that might shed some light on if the info they had was more detailed than what Congress saw..
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