THESE ARE THE FOLKS WHO BROUGHT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY TO THE DANCE. Where are the democratic activist right now? Too busy anti-warring?

Let this one slip by and kiss prominence as a national party good bye.


New York City Transit Workers Strike


Roger Toussaint, president of Local 100 of the Transport Workers Union, center, accompanied by Darlyne Lawson, left, recording secretary, and other union officials announces a strike after failing to reach a deal with the New York Metropolitan Transportation Authority Tuesday, Dec. 20, 2005, at the union headquarters in Manhattan. More than 7 million daily riders will be forced to find new ways to get around because of the strike. (AP Photo/David Karp)


Subways and buses ground to a halt Tuesday morning as transit workers walked off the job following days of acrimonious labor talks.

The walkout threatened to plunge the city into chaos by forcing more than 7 million daily riders to find new ways to get around.

Authorities began locking turnstiles and shuttering subway entrances shortly after the Transport Workers Union ordered the strike. The city began bracing for a rush hour filled with disorder.

At one subway booth, a handwritten sign read, "Strike in Effect. Station Closed. Happy Holidays!!!!" At Penn Station, an announcement over the loudspeaker told people to "please exit the subway system."

Mayor Michael Bloomberg began putting into effect a sweeping emergency plan to reduce gridlock and keep certain streets open for emergency vehicles. It included requiring cars coming into Manhattan below 96th Street to have at least four occupants.

New Yorkers were urged to make arrangements to car pool, bicycle and walk to work, or change their schedules and work from home.

The union called the strike after a late round of negotiations broke down Monday night. Union President Roger Toussaint said the union board voted overwhelmingly to call the strike.

"This is a fight over dignity and respect on the job, a concept that is very alien to the MTA," Toussaint said in announcing the strike. "Transit workers are tired of being underappreciated and disrespected."

The news drew an angry response from the mayor, governor and head of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority.

MTA Chairman Peter Kalikow called the strike "a slap in the face" to all New Yorkers and said state lawyers will immediately head to court in seeking to block the walkout.

"This is not only an affront to the concept of public service, it is a cowardly attempt by Roger Toussaint and the TWU to bring the city to its knees to create leverage for their own bargaining position," said Bloomberg at a news conference.

Bloomberg headed to the Office of Emergency Management headquarters and planned to walk across the Brooklyn Bridge on Tuesday morning to City Hall.

The union and MTA had worked furiously to try to reach a new contract, hoping to avoid the city's first transit strike in more than 25 years. It is illegal for mass transit workers to strike in New York, which means the 33,000 bus and subway employees will incur huge fines two days' pay for each day on strike.

Bloomberg has said the walkout could cost the city as much as $400 million a day, and would be particularly harsh at the height of the holiday shopping and tourist season. He said a strike would freeze traffic into "gridlock that will tie the record for all gridlocks."

"They have broken the trust of the people of New York," said Gov. George Pataki. "They have not only endangered our city and state's economy, but they are also recklessly endangering the health and safety of each and every New Yorker."

MTA spokesman Tom Kelly said the agency "put a fair offer" on the table before talks broke down. "Unfortunately, that offer has been rejected."

The union said the latest MTA offer included annual raises of 3 percent, 4 percent and 3.5 percent; the previous proposal included 3 percent raises each year. MTA workers earn between $47,000 and $55,000 annually.

Pension issues have been a major sticking point in the talks. The MTA wants to raise the age at which new employees become eligible for full pension from 55 to 62, which the union says is unfair.

But Toussaint said the union wanted a better offer from the MTA, especially when the agency has a $1 billion surplus this year.

"With a $1 billion surplus, this contract between the MTA and the Transport Workers Union should have been a no-brainer," Toussaint said. "Sadly, that has not been the case."

The down-to-the-wire negotiations came as workers at two private bus lines in Queens walked off the job, a move meant to step up pressure on the MTA.

The contract expired Friday at midnight, but the two sides agreed to keep talking through the weekend and the union set a new deadline for Tuesday.

Commuter frustration was evident both before the strike and after it was called.

Darryl Padilla, a 20-year-old club promoter, was trying to get on the train at Penn Station when he found out that the strike had begun. He didn't have enough cash to take a cab to his home on the northern tip of Manhattan.

"I didn't think they were going to shut down. I can't take a cab," he said.

"Enough is enough," said Craig DeRosa, who relies on the subway to get to work. "Their benefits are as rich as you see anywhere in this country and they are still complaining. I don't get it."

In Queens, Brunilda Ayala said she had no sympathy for the union after the bus strike began in her neighborhood.

"How can you give a raise to a bus driver who would make three old ladies walk home in the cold?" asked Ayala, 57.

The strike is New York's citywide mass transit walkout first since an 11-day strike in 1980.

___

Associated Press writers Samantha Gross and Sara Kugler contributed to this report.

___

On the Net:

Metropolitan Transportation Authority: http://www.mta.info/

Transport Workers Union: http://www.twulocal100.org

City contingency plans: http://www.nyc.gov/html/transitinfo/html/home.shtml

The transit authority has a ONE BILLION DOLLAR SURPLUS

Many NY/NJ people think that should be given back to the workers, who are not asking for an unreasonable amount

They are asking for 6/6/6 percent and have been offered 3/4/3.5

Yes, it is a bitch on the public, but strikes have to be an option if you want to have a strong union.

This is ALL Gov. George Pataki's problem
He has the ability to end this quickly.

Instead of trying to bust the union.

Let's see if the democrats let this be another Union buster.

If they do every democratic representative and Senator from New York should resign in disgrace.

If I was from New York and my elected representative let the republican mayor of NYC and the republican governor of New York State bust another Union I would be mad as hell and looking for someone new with the right priorities.

Thanks Marine for starting this, and thanks Graham, for being the first one to respond.

If the Democrats, the liberals, or people here for that matter are really interested in representing the "common person", well here are the common people fighting for a decent shake.

How do they make it on around $50,000 per year in the NYC area anyway? I have an income which is a good bit more than that as the head of family of four, and we are doing okay but are hardly rolling in dough here in the DC suburbs.

By living the farest away from Manhatten and spending at least 4 to 5 hours a day on public transportation just to get to work and back home.

Years ago when I traveled a lot for my job I worked with a guy whose regular job was in Manhatten. He lived in Pennsylvania, just on the other side of the boundary with NJ.

Good question.

Aww shucks. Marine, you put so much effort on this forum trying to single out the AntiWars as fringe commie leftists.

And now, in one swoop, you bag all democrats as AntiWar !

But I am diverging...

If only it had the potential ...

You cannot live in New York on $50,000 a year.
You can survive, but you cannot live.

This is Pataki's doing.

Ahhh... the number of the beast.

You see how evil unions and their Democratic supporters are?

Yeah, it would have been much better PR to ask for 5.9%!

did a judge just fine the union? I just heard something on MSN NBC but no details

Well it is the problem picadilly. Labor Unions and the working man are who made the democratic party what it was.

The democrats had a lock on congress when they let Reagan bust the air trafic controller's Union.

Too many democrats have stopped paying attention to what's good for labor and let too many jobs get outsourced overseas. Right now the Unions are a shadow of what they were, you are looking at the democratic party joining that description if they don't heave to and pay attention.

The democratic party has let American labor go down the crapper and is paying for it by losing control of politics in America. It will get worst.

But for some the question isn't that clear cut in this case, nationally $50,000 is good wages and the surplus this year means nothing regarding future years, the housing bubble bursting would tank the economy all by itself. Also there's no mention of what should be spent for increased security, hybrid busses and other needed improvements.

If costs are that high wages aren't the answer, why should transit workers make one and a half times as much as most cops?

You can get sort of an idea what the cost of living in a community by referring to the allowed per diem rates published by the GSA. Say if you were in Scranton PA or Toledo OH the GSA says it would cost $70 a day, but if you were in Manhatten NY that will be anywhere from $180 to $226 a day depending on the time of the year.

The only times I ever went to New York City the United States Marine Corps picked up the tab. I stayed in the Brooklyn Navy Yards for my accomadations, it appears they have increased in price a bit since being sold off to private interests.

http://www3.cjad.com/content/cp_article.as...ws/w122077A.htm

Judge imposes $1 million-a-day fine on striking New York transit workers
Updated at 16:07 on December 20, 2005, EST.

NEW YORK (AP) - A judge slapped a $1 million US-per-day fine on the city's subway and bus workers' union after the workers went on strike Tuesday, stranding millions of commuters, holiday shoppers and tourists at the height of the Christmas rush.

State Justice Theodore Jones levelled the sanction against the Transport Workers Union for violating a state law that bars public employees from going on strike.

Lawyers for the city and state had asked Jones to hit the union with a "very potent fine" for defying the law.

You know what is a real kick in the teeth here Jason?

Judge Theodore Jones is a democrat.

Aye.

Aye again.

There was a time, not so long ago, when you spoke of Unions, you'd automatically have the Mob in the picture. Chances are the Mob just climbed a few steps up the corporate and social ladder.

Unless someone forcefeeds the DLC for a few months in a row on the same diet of hamburgers and fries 10 bucks a day will get the average US hourly worker, instead of all those fancy cocktail toasts.

Well, I'm thoroughly disheartened a Judge who purports to be a democrat would levy a million dollar a day fine on a Labor Union. It's as though they are throwing out what made this country great out in the garbage. I know the Unions no longer have much clout but this is a real kick in the teeth. The only way I'd feel worst is if somebody told me there ain't really a Santa Claus.

The Taylor Law...
...
# Strikes: Section 210 was modified by making it illegal for a public employee (in addition to an employee organization) to strike or to cause, instigate, encourage or condone a strike. In addition, anyone who supervises public employees is prohibited from authorizing, approving, condoning, or consenting to a strike. It was also presumed that anyone who was absent on the day(s) of a strike or who withheld their services in whole or in part on the day(s) of a strike had participated in the strike. The penalties for striking and violating the law were also toughened. The chief executive officer of the government involved, having determined that an employee had engaged in a strike, was required to notify the employee that the employee was being placed on probationary status for one year and that the employee would be fined 2 days pay for each day of strike participation. These new penalties were in addition to the possibility of other penalties through disciplinary action. Employees were given the right to challenge the determination that they had violated to no-strike provisions of the law. The penalties against employee organizations were also modified by removing the ceiling on the amount an employee organization could be fined by the courts if the employee organization violated a court-ordered injunction. Finally, the amendments provided that a strike might be condoned and the penalties avoided if it could be shown that there was "extreme provocation" on the part of the public employer.
...

So....

How long before workers go back to work if they don't get nothing ?

How many days before New-York retailers go down on their knees begging Pataki ?

How much money Pataki will cash in from retailers to end the strike before Friday Dec 23rd ?

How much extra money Pataki will cash in from retailers to end the strike before Friday Dec 30th ?

Just how tall are the Giants this year ? Will they make it to the Superbowl ?

Guess what, Marine: there is no Santa Claus.
And you have a good point: where are all the working people who SHOULD be supporting the striking working people ? Has everyone gotten so selfish that they only think of themselves
and their immediate needs (like the folks quoted in the article above) ??!!

In trying to imagine the mindset of these transit workers...
they see a surplus... they have been on red alert status how many times in the last few years by the powers that be ? So the guy who thought he was just a train driver or a bus driver, now must be on the front lines in the "war on terrorism", too ?

If I were a worker in an industry, I'd rather pay union dues and have union bosses who showed me some respect, rather than a faceless corporate mentality that treated me like dirt. Pride.
These workers want to be shown some respect !

That doesn't address the problems, prices that are too high can't be sustained and most of the country has no sympathy for people saying they can't make it on about double the average wage. If the prices are too high for workers to survive then that has to shake out, a few people with a vested interest in overpriced real estate will have to bear the brunt. The way they want it to go the entire country has to subsidize the skewed costs by paying more for the cost of doing business.

If you were arguing that the UAW should have cut a deal to have plants make more efficient vehicles and they take a pay cut in return for profit sharing on a better product it'd have my wholehearted support, saying that unions should help make a few cities less affordable isn't something I can back.

By the way, my niece lived in Manhatten quite recently and didn't have a problem living on a good deal less than $50K/year, I don't even buy the underlying argument.

Well one Democrat who might not be on board is Hillary Clinton , who supports the Taylor Law, a strikebreaking law when the Teachers union was in violation of it...
Transcript of Hillary with Tim Russert

We will have to see where Hillary comes down on THIS particular strike. Sounds like different circumstances with the teachers. This will be a tough call for her politically...
feet to the fire, Hillary.

Maybe She will Re-name a Post Office
The Taylor Post Office ?
She's really goood at naming Post Offices you know

The Senate has NOTHING to do with this strike.

It is the Governor.Especially Pataki-he owns the system here.

So get off Hillary's case. figures the anti-woman anti-Hillary anti-democrat the notrealdemocrat would put that up
Just hijacking another thread

I am sorry, but I don't buy it...
Did she work here full time? (or is she a student?)
Does she pay her own rent or home?
Is she married? With children?
Is she a kid?(kids of course can make do on just about nothing, but that is not real life)
More important-does she pay her own full health insurance? Car insurance? Home insurance?
(or was she here living with 5 or 6 others)???

Does she work near where she lives? Commutes?
Does she starve herself or eat reguarly?

Remember-the transit workers are normally heads of family, so their 50,000 is for a family of four.
Gas prices just for one is 50cents higher in Manhattan than say, New Jersey.
Everything else is that much higher too

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/Business/Labor_and_Workplace

Graham4- to be fair, it is in her state.
One would expect she would weigh in with a comment or two on a matter of such
economic importance to the major city in her state.

She was working, unlike almost all transit workers she lived in Manhattan, like most no car, she rented. Don't buy it, the truth is inconvenient for you. She shopped at Dean and Delucca more than she should have. This also doesn't address the FACT that NYC is a place that's pricing itself out of existence, it's bad enough that we'll have to subsidize the busted mortgages when rates go up, having our commerce go through that greed center is a much larger burden. If people want to solve things they should fight for the prices to be more reasonable, there's no way most people supporting families on $30K will sympathize with people claiming they're being starved on $55K, it's a losing battle.

What she could do is hand out doughnuts and coffee and hot chocolate and root the people of the state on to work

Mike Bloomberg is walking across the Brooklyn Bridge with the people, like Ed Koch and John V. Lindsay did in the past strikes.

Of course, I think it was when Rudy Giuliani was still DA that the police had a big protest and Rudy incited a riot by the Brooklyn Bridge. All the cops were drunk
and they started overturning cars and things like that. That is osmething that is not needed.

In this transit strike, Pataki has the ability to give the workers what they deserve
and strike will be over in an instance. Nobody wins but a US Senator has no say in the outcome of a strike like this one. This is the Governor's baby.(And if Pataki ever actually has dreams of going higher, this shall probably end them.)

NYers are strong. They get through anything

Again, family?Insurance?What benefits does she get?

The important question is-should they work without raises? Would you?
Should they work with no future benefits for new workers? For themselves?
All the specifics of the contract?

It is not as easy as it seems to keep the buses and trains running. Not everyone could do it or would want to.

So the 55k is really irrelevant anyhow.

Just heard they will allow a federal mediator in

THESE ARE THE FOLKS WHO BROUGHT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY TO THE DANCE. Where are the democratic activist right now? Too busy anti-warring? - Marine

Looks like to me they are on strike.

Oh, you mean the Democrat Party Leadership!

They are probably hiding from the millions
inconvenienced, while quietly supporting the workers.

Kinda like the Republicans voting for historic deficits
while calling their bill The Deficit Reduction Act.

Just for a change don't you think it would have been some kind of wonderful for them to stand up for these working people?

If I was Chuck Shummer and/or Hillary Clinton, I'd be asking which picket line they'rd like me to man. Now that would make a statement that the democratic party stands with the working man. If I was in New York just me as a private citizen would volunteer to walk a picket line, but that's just me, I believe in Unions.

That's a good idea citizens should help man the lines . The private people should help man the picket lines-BUT-
in NY the police actually make it hard for those to mingle with the strikers. Everyone has to stay in their area these days.

They have a great inflatable rat they bring around to different strikes to show the management what they are

You know what would happen if Hillary or Schumer manned the lines?
The trilogy of terror would say they were playing politics and didn't belong there.
Damned either way.

BTW-if you want that, then of course Bush should be demanded to back the management, and tell those workers face to face they should be jailed, while their little kiddies starve to death and don't get any presents this Christmastime

Yeah....you're right. I'm down with you on this.

How many people did your niece support?

Newsflash. Some of the striking workers are the same anti-warring Democrats you speak of. Most of the striking workers will vote Democrat in the next election. Even if they don't, they would probably vote independent before they vote Republican.

The world is not divided by Republican vs Democrats. It's a class war Marine. If you are not rich, you are fighting against your own interest.

Having served in the military for thirty years the concept of class warfare rings pretty hollow. Anyone can be whatever they want to be in the military.

We have people who entered the military as a private and ended up many years latter as a four star General.

Before I had been in the Corps for six months I was asked if I would like to go to officer's candidate school. I declined because I had no intention of making the military a career. By the time I'd decided the Marines would make a good career I had formed an opinion that I really don't want to be an officer.

It does not matter what color, race, creed, or social background a person comes from in the military. There is no such thing as classes where I came from.

Having served in the Navy myself, I'll agree that the military, aside from citizenship, is more fair about rewarding achievement with less politics. But, take off the uniform and the class discrimination is in full effect.

I would say that the military has a better form of government than the government it serves. But that would be advocating totalitarianism.

I would like to see the democratic party take a principled position in this situation
as I prefer in foreign policy and every where else. To me this means that labor unions have a right to engage in collective bargaining and when all else fails they have a right to strike. Civil disbedience may be the price that must be paid to
protect this right.

Just herself, but unlike the transit workers she lived in Manhattan, FAR more expensive.

this is nothing more than bs by the unions striking right before xmas.

Actually, most transit workers are married with 2 children at least.
That means feeding a family of 4.
That means all expenses times four on the same salary.
With federal,city,state,social security taxes taken out , it comes to approx. 35,000.00 which is less than 700.00 week take home.

Add in insurance for car,home,health, add in electric, gas, water, taxes on house
Add in at least $100.00 a week in food, if not more, add in transportation to and from work (which can be another 100.00 week), and you are quickly on the needy line before having anything left to save for retirement (which is the core issue-the MTA wants to do away with pensions like alot of Bush's friendly neighborhood corporations have done(Delta for one), and then nothing left for any entertainment at all.

A single woman renting in Manhattan has 1/4 the expenses of not having a family,
and also needs much less to survive.

And just surviving, that is a wonderful thing, to work hard all week just to survive.

Let alone in the Summer, these people in the trains work and its 120 on the platforms and the non-airconditioned trains, and they are out there with all the nutjobs that NY has ready to mug and kill them for no reason at all.

These people, like teachers, should be ones making the money ballplayers and politicians make.

And if $55,000 is enough, why do our 100 Senators all give themselves over $100,000 a year salary and the President makes over $400,000 a year(plus all his illegal kickbacks and schemes)?
When in essence, the transit workers do more in one day to insure business rolls, than a President does in four years

And don't forget also-
Property taxes in NY can be on a regular home about $5 to 15,000 dollars a year. And mortgage payments are not cheap either.

So a single girl renting for fun in Manhattan probably can survive
and get herself fed a lot easier than a family for four on a fixed salary.

A single girl making $55,000 would be equiv. to $220,000 for four.

(again, what your single niece has to do with the transit authority I am not sure).

I think that you're right about some of those strikers being anti-warring Democrats. But I also think that many others, though well short of a majority, of those strikers have been voting Republican. And they may very well be voting "against their own interest," but if you told them that they would tell you where they thought that you were wrong, that the Republicans are better for their interests. Now you and I would would try to convince them differently, but the fact is that they exist and have serious views which the Democrats must deal with.

I guess that they must be anti-Christmas or something, huh?

Certainly not as pro-Christmas as company executives who lay employees off right before Christmas. I mean without those company executives, the true meaning of Christmas of celebration at the malls and amassing as many material goods as possible would be lost!

Your claim that all expenses go up 4X for a family of 4 is PURE BS, we ALL KNOW that isn't even CLOSE to true! Also the pretense that living in Manhattan is the same cost as living elsewhere and commuting is pure garbage. Such lies only alienate people, only honest arguments work.

Let's say their kids are the normal American kids
If so, then the daughter they have is involved in either dance/cheerleading/gymnastics/or acting classes-which costs thousands and thousands of dollars
The boy is involved in sports, or clubs or other after school activities which again costs thousands and thousands of dollars
Mom is stuck driving kids every single day of the week (hence the term soccer mom, although in NY soccer is not the sport of choice)

I think you should update your files

Just because a single woman can make a go, I don't know why you are being so defensive or anti-New Yorker and anti-labor

I venture a guess that a family of four in New York city region (including New Jersey and WEstchester, cannot make a go of it with savings left
for much under $80,000 a year or more.

That doesn't even include the 3500 a kid would need in braces(now getting to be a common thing) that almost no insurance pays for

And I said(and you misquote)-a family who owns a house in the boros
pays equivelant to a single female in Manhattan (besides-you ddin't answer the other questions-and, is the apartment she is in a normal apartment you find in the ad pages, or is it school gotten with student rates and student loans?

What a super time for a strike.
It gets people's attention to the starvation and sacrifice the poor workers make every day, and now they are trying to steal their pensions.

What, is a beautiful spring day with temps in the 80s a better time?

If I were head of a union, I would think now is perfect

HOWEVER
It is when the contract ends and the new ones needed that is the date

That just isn't true, a house in Brooklyn is far more affordable than an apartment in SOHO (which is where she was living). It wasn't through a school, I said she was working.

OK, thinking supporting an overpriced market that's probably about to collapse is anti labor, no way I buy that BS. Your idea of supporting labor is paying off real estate speculators and raising wages to cover it until the jobs are priced out of existence, mine is finding ways to make living more affordable so they can live better and not lose their jobs.

Do you REALLY think there's much sympathy for people getting paid more than the average family income? Do you REALLY think people tend to side with a union making it harder for them to get to work and do their Christmas shopping? People put themselves and their family first, it would have been much wiser for the strike to be called in January, now the union has alienated the vast majority of the people. This particular strike harms not only the transit workers but unions in general, even if they get what they want they'll lose, in fact they've already lost.

quote=graham4anything,Dec 21 2005, 06:16 AM]
Let's say their kids are the normal American kids
If so, then the daughter they have is involved in either dance/cheerleading/gymnastics/or acting classes-which costs thousands and thousands of dollars
The boy is involved in sports, or clubs or other after school activities which again costs thousands and thousands of dollars
Mom is stuck driving kids every single day of the week (hence the term soccer mom, although in NY soccer is not the sport of choice)

I think you should update your files

Just because a single woman can make a go, I don't know why you are being so defensive or anti-New Yorker and anti-labor

I venture a guess that a family of four in New York city region (including New Jersey and WEstchester, cannot make a go of it with savings left
for much under $80,000 a year or more.

That doesn't even include the 3500 a kid would need in braces(now getting to be a common thing) that almost no insurance pays for

And I said(and you misquote)-a family who owns a house in the boros
pays equivelant to a single female in Manhattan (besides-you ddin't answer the other questions-and, is the apartment she is in a normal apartment you find in the ad pages, or is it school gotten with student rates and student loans?

[/quote]