http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11709270/

Colorado classroom controversy stirs debate
Portion of lecture comparing President Bush to Adolph Hitler gets high school teacher suspended. NBC News correspondent Mark Mullen reports

Today show
Updated: 8:56 a.m. ET March 7, 2006


Mark Mullen
Correspondent

In Colorado, a high school student decided to teach his teacher a lesson by recording a controversial portion of the geography teacher’s lecture and playing it on a radio station. The teacher says the part of the lecture that gave the lesson context was not played. Still, that teacher has been suspended. NBC News correspondent Mark Mullen reports.

Analyzing the president's state of the union speech, Colorado high school teacher Jay Bennish made some provocative comments to his students about how the president defended his decision to invade Iraq — even comparing the tone of Mr. Bush's address to an Adolph Hitler speech.

Audio recording:
"I'm not saying that Bush and Hitler are exactly the same. Obviously, they're not. Okay? But there are some eerie similarities to the tones that they use, we're right, you're all wrong."


One of Bennish’s students, 16-year-old Sean Allen, was so offended he recorded part of the lecture and played it on a conservative Denver radio talk show.

“My intention was to get him to stop teaching biased political arguments," says Allen.

But after the recording went public, Bennish was suspended for violating a policy requiring teachers to present different sides of an issue.


NBC VIDEO


• Matt Lauer talks to suspended teacher
March 7: "Today" show anchor Matt Lauer talks with suspended high school geography teacher Jay Bennish about comments that compared George Bush to Hitler, which a student recorded.
Today show

“It’s clear the teacher was presenting a biased point of view," says Tustin Amole of the Cherry Creek School district in Colorado.

The suspension prompted a student walkout and protest. "A teacher should be able to teach outside of the books, not just the books," says student Angelica Ortega.

The controversy ignited a debate about free speech.

“What his agenda is as a teacher is to provoke his students with controversial positions on just about everything and engage them in discussion,” says David Lane, Bennish’s attorney.

But education experts say free speech doesn't always apply to public school teachers

“The district has the right to tell Mr. Bennish what he can and cannot teach in the classroom. There’s really no question about that," says Paul Campos of the University of Colorado Law School

Both teacher and student do have one thing in common: since this controversy went public, both have apparently received anonymous threats from those who don't share their opinion.

© 2006 MSNBC Interactive

I saw the interview with this teacher on the Today Show this morning. The student only gave the radio station a small portion of the 50 minute class discussion- the teacher claims he was trying to get the students to think and that the student who recorded the class participated fully in the discussion during the class period.

I remember the old Americanism vs Communism courses I had to take in high school. I was fortunate enough to have a teacher who also provoked discussion by taking hard stances at times.
We learned to think- isn't that the point of attending school ?

I'd love to hear what our three members who teach hisotry think about this.

bold is my emphasis:

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_3576309

Governor praises student who taped criticism of Bush
He says he's surprised by the backlash against the teen and says the teacher should have balanced his lesson.
By Robert Sanchez and Chris Frates
Denver Post Staff Writers

Gov. Bill Owens praised the Overland High School student who taped and then made public a teacher's classroom criticism of President Bush's foreign policy, saying Monday that the teenager has been unfairly targeted for ridicule.

Speaking on a radio show, Owens said the Cherry Creek School District is properly handling an investigation into the recording of teacher Jay Bennish by one of his geography students, Sean Allen, 16.

"What's interesting to me is the backlash" against Allen, Owens said on "The Mike Rosen Show" on 850 KOA-AM, adding that Bennish would now have to "defend himself to the people that pay his salary."

Bennish's attorney, David Lane, said Monday that it isn't surprising the governor spoke out against Bennish, considering that Owens called "for the state to punish Ward Churchill" and supported an amendment to require the Pledge of Allegiance.

"The governor has demonstrated a lack of knowledge about the First Amendment for many, many years," Lane said. He "has a First Amendment right to say whatever he wants."

The district will complete its investigation today or Wednesday, Cherry Creek schools spokeswoman Tustin Amole said. Bennish was placed on administrative leave last week.

Amole said investigators want to speak with him one last time before concluding their investigation into whether he violated policy on teaching controversial subjects.

Lane said the district plans to tell Bennish the results of its investigation at noon Wednesday. Lane said he expects Bennish to be back in the classroom Thursday.

In the 20-minute recording made on an MP3 device, Bennish said there were "eerie similarities" between what Bush said during his recent State of the Union address and "things that Adolf Hitler used to say." He also said capitalism is "at odds with human rights."

At the end of the recording, Bennish said, "I'm not in any way implying that you should agree with me."

Students said the teacher has strong support and that Allen has become a target, even though the teen has not returned to school since the recording was made public.

"Everybody's mad" at Allen, said Phil Tekle, a 17-year-old junior who had a geography class with Bennish as a freshman. "People are saying that if they see him, they want to beat him up. I think that's just talk, though."

In interviews with nearly a dozen current and former Bennish students, teenagers told The Denver Post that the 28-year-old teacher wanted an open forum in his classroom and conducted good-hearted debates with his students. Bennish often criticized the president, they said.
"A lot (of the students) weren't used to having a teacher who was so in your face, but they got used to it and everyone opened up after that," said Devin Walecka, 18, who attends college and was Bennish's teaching assistant last school year. "He was very provocative, and he was fine if you didn't agree with him."

Jasmine Meadows, 16, said Bennish allowed students in her history class to leave the room if they didn't agree with the direction that discussions were heading. No one left, she said.

"I agree with him sometimes, and the other times, I just ignore him," the high school junior said. "You could say what you wanted to say in his class."

Lane said Bennish has received an "endless amount of death threats and hate mail" but planned to talk to NBC's "Today" show this morning in New York.

Allen, too, had a TV appearance scheduled Monday night on the Fox News program "Hannity & Colmes." The teen said Monday that he intends to transfer to a different school.

For his part, Owens said Bennish should have presented both sides of the argument on Bush's policies.

"I'll bet that you don't have Mr. Bennish balancing later in the day talking about the good things that the United States is doing in Iraq, discussing why George Bush is not similar to Adolf Hitler," the governor said. "I'll bet there just aren't any tapes from any student of Mr. Bennish giving that other side."

Staff writers Jennifer Brown and Karen Rouse contributed to this report.

Staff writer Robert Sanchez can be reached at 303-820-1282 or rsanchez@denverpost.com.

link for the video one more freedom going going_________________??

http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?g=191a...667ef95b2a&f=00

Jacov Smirnov, a Russian comedian who emigrated to the USA in the late 70smused to joke that "in Russia, we have freedom of speech - just not freedom after speech."

Not as funny as it once was.

He got his job back he's been reinstated.

If I recall this was a teacher of geography, not history, current events, or politcal science. Its obvious his anti-bush rantings wre outside the scope of his class.

Oh, please. How do you teach geography, which is actually geopolitical without teaching history, current events, and political science?

Yes, all of my son's geography classes have involved political discussion as well- at least those beginning in middle school. As Evelyn points out, geopolitical boundaries, etc.

GOPGuy,

I teach U.S. History AND GEOGRAPHY. All of those subjects are part of the social sciences and are so intertwined as to be inseparable. Geography is a political study- which is why they call maps that contain borders Political Maps. Red states and blue states is not something you color in an art class.

I find the idea of someone taping a lecture just to put a teacher on the hot seat frightening. It is too easy to take a teacher's words out of context, and the context might be a two or three week series of lectures, demonstrations, experiments, and discussions that will span a multitude of issues. And U.S. history is far from a benign pristine study: our nation is beautiful, but it does have some warts that show up when you take the makeup off...

What is the right wing so worried about, that they feel so threatened by an opposing voice? Why is it they feel that only their POV should be heard?

I could if i would make Winston and Pie in here into card carrying fundams whit rightwing leanings to the right of the KKK and Cheney, Hell i coud make them into rapid Cheney fans and supporters, if i bother collecting varius musings and posts over the last 2 years. and place them together as I want it.
,
In that regard the students critque is only really relevant if there was a recording of the WHOLE session not just 2/5 of it.

Good (but frightening) way to put it into perspective, Alexander !

Well I do have a BA in History so I do know what that entails. I also know what a high school geography class entails. And it does not entail a diatribe about US politics. It is fine to discuss historical events or even current events that shape a countries borders etc. But its clear the teacher wasn't doing that. The school agreed that he was off topic. In fact if he was teaching political science I wouldn't really mind the diatribe if he was getting them to think critically about politics, but i doesn't belong in this class.

As far as an opposing voice, its not that. At that age kids are very impressionable, and its really best for them to get both sides of an argument and make up their own mind until they get older, else you give them a sided view of things(right or wrong).

Well all we have to go on is the kids word. He said he recorded all his classes. No one denies he does this or that what was on the tape is factual.

OK Alexander, so you think you can take what I have said over the last several years out of context and turn it into a RW diatribe; I dare you to try. Two rules- posts have to be substansive and linked- which pretty much eliminate RA. ... and I get to proof before you post. No edits, only proof... Go For It!

And it would take more than just a recording, even of the whole thing. It would take all of the materials used: overheads, written lessons, portfolios, tests, books and reference materials- the whole thing. That is the problem with trying to take an educational exercise out of context: it's the context, the framework, the schema, that makes the lesson.

I think you know my stand, GOPGuy: if this teacher was proselytizing for either political wing, then he deserves to be chastized. If it kept happening, then he deserves to be fired. But to be concise, I've been teaching for 10 years and have NEVER found a teacher who does anything approaching such activity. No question I am as left-wing as anyone- and proud of it- but if you're kid were in my classroom, s/he would learn to think and question- nothing more. Let the chips fall where they may- if a child thinks and find that the Republican perspective more in line with their philosophy, then so be it. (... of course they'd get an 'F' and I'd refer them to a psychiatrist... Jes' kiddin')

... that's assuming their impressionable minds get both sides of an argument- which they don't. Aside from that, my job as a teacher is to help them develop strategies for investigating the arguments and analyze them for their veracity. While both factions leave much to be desired in the 'veracity' department, the RW arguments requires the most scrutiny hands down; listening to DeLay yesterday on This Week is more than enough evidence of that!

Hey Great! We're looking at our curriculum here at my school, and since you are an expert in what the curriculum of that particular class is, could you please enlighten me so we can avoid the 'mistakes' made by the teacher in Colorado?

Well I would start with having kids be able to do the basics before we start getting political. THe cirriculum at most schools is laughable on what the minimum they expects kids to know. Lets make sure everyone can read, write and do basic math before we get into politcal discussions. I actually think advance political science classes can be good things, but lets focus on the basics at least.

Oops had to give you the red pen there, wrong use of you're. I understand what you are saying. When I stated right or wrong it was in a general since not political one per se. Because whoever is espousing the opinion of course believes they are right.

I will take up the challenge, but it will take some time, which means there can go several weeks before it is done, the Q is how NASTY would you like it to be??
Cencorship nasty or just plain Cheney

Caught me... ... and you know, GOPGuy, I think you would feel comfortable having your kid in my classroom... 'cause you know exactly where I stand.

Jes' plain Cheney will do jes' fine. REMEMBER! I proof before you post, and everything has to be linked so that anyone here can reference the post- including me. Take all the time you need...

Wow, you could run for office as a reform minded Republican with an answer like that!


That's only half snarky and half compliment.

Heh heh heh. I could have passed the minimum compentancy test in my state in highschool in about the 6th or 7th grade. It was so basic. If you aim low you hit low.

Yeah probably would.