Jefferson's Manual was written by Thomas Jefferson as a guidebook for the US House of Representatives. It provides that, while the House has the exclusive power to bring articles of impeachment against a public officer, requests for such an impeachment have top priority and cannot be ignored.
Here is a small section:
A direct proposition to impeach is a question of high privilege in the House and at once supersedes business otherwise in order under the rules governing the order of business (III, 20-45-2048; VI, 468, 469). It may not even be superseded by an election case, which is also a matter of high privilege (III, 2581). It does not lose its privilege from the fact that a similar proposition has been made at a previous time during the same session of Congress (III, 2408), previous action of the House not affecting it (III, 2053). So, also, propositions relating to an impeachment already made are privileged (III, 2400, 2402, 2410), such as resolutions providing for selection of managers of an impeachment (VI, 517), proposing abatement of impeachment proceedings (VI, 514); but a resolution simply proposing an investigation, even though impeachment may be a possible consequence, is not privileged (III, 2060,2546;VI,463). But where a resolution of investigation positively proposes impeachment or suggests that end, it has been admitted as of privilege (III, 2051, 2052, 2401, 2402).
http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/aclunixon.html
Now we all know that there is ZERO chance that the Repub House will impeach Bush, Cheney, or anyone else in the cabal. However, as I read it (and I am not a lawyer), when Vermont's State Resolution to impeach (followed by Illinois's if they pass it) hits the "in box", IT MUST BE BROUGHT TO THE FLOOR FOR A VOTE.
PERIOD.
Now if that happens, all 435 of these folks are going to have to stand up and be counted, IMHO, as for, agin, or not present.
AND THEY WILL HAVE TO ANSWER TO THE PUBLIC IN NOVEMBER.
AND MORE THAN 60 PERCENT OF AMERICA THINKS BUSH IS DOING A BAD JOB.
What do you folks think?
Full Version: Jefferson's Manual
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QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Apr 25 2006, 12:06 PM)
Jefferson's Manual was written by Thomas Jefferson as a guidebook for the US House of Representatives. It provides that, while the House has the exclusive power to bring articles of impeachment against a public officer, requests for such an impeachment have top priority and cannot be ignored.
Here is a small section:
A direct proposition to impeach is a question of high privilege in the House and at once supersedes business otherwise in order under the rules governing the order of business (III, 20-45-2048; VI, 468, 469). It may not even be superseded by an election case, which is also a matter of high privilege (III, 2581). It does not lose its privilege from the fact that a similar proposition has been made at a previous time during the same session of Congress (III, 2408), previous action of the House not affecting it (III, 2053). So, also, propositions relating to an impeachment already made are privileged (III, 2400, 2402, 2410), such as resolutions providing for selection of managers of an impeachment (VI, 517), proposing abatement of impeachment proceedings (VI, 514); but a resolution simply proposing an investigation, even though impeachment may be a possible consequence, is not privileged (III, 2060,2546;VI,463). But where a resolution of investigation positively proposes impeachment or suggests that end, it has been admitted as of privilege (III, 2051, 2052, 2401, 2402).
http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/aclunixon.html
Now we all know that there is ZERO chance that the Repub House will impeach Bush, Cheney, or anyone else in the cabal. However, as I read it (and I am not a lawyer), when Vermont's State Resolution to impeach (followed by Illinois's if they pass it) hits the "in box", IT MUST BE BROUGHT TO THE FLOOR FOR A VOTE.
PERIOD.
Now if that happens, all 435 of these folks are going to have to stand up and be counted, IMHO, as for, agin, or not present.
AND THEY WILL HAVE TO ANSWER TO THE PUBLIC IN NOVEMBER.
AND MORE THAN 60 PERCENT OF AMERICA THINKS BUSH IS DOING A BAD JOB.
What do you folks think?
Here is a small section:
A direct proposition to impeach is a question of high privilege in the House and at once supersedes business otherwise in order under the rules governing the order of business (III, 20-45-2048; VI, 468, 469). It may not even be superseded by an election case, which is also a matter of high privilege (III, 2581). It does not lose its privilege from the fact that a similar proposition has been made at a previous time during the same session of Congress (III, 2408), previous action of the House not affecting it (III, 2053). So, also, propositions relating to an impeachment already made are privileged (III, 2400, 2402, 2410), such as resolutions providing for selection of managers of an impeachment (VI, 517), proposing abatement of impeachment proceedings (VI, 514); but a resolution simply proposing an investigation, even though impeachment may be a possible consequence, is not privileged (III, 2060,2546;VI,463). But where a resolution of investigation positively proposes impeachment or suggests that end, it has been admitted as of privilege (III, 2051, 2052, 2401, 2402).
http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/aclunixon.html
Now we all know that there is ZERO chance that the Repub House will impeach Bush, Cheney, or anyone else in the cabal. However, as I read it (and I am not a lawyer), when Vermont's State Resolution to impeach (followed by Illinois's if they pass it) hits the "in box", IT MUST BE BROUGHT TO THE FLOOR FOR A VOTE.
PERIOD.
Now if that happens, all 435 of these folks are going to have to stand up and be counted, IMHO, as for, agin, or not present.
AND THEY WILL HAVE TO ANSWER TO THE PUBLIC IN NOVEMBER.
AND MORE THAN 60 PERCENT OF AMERICA THINKS BUSH IS DOING A BAD JOB.
What do you folks think?
I don't believe the majority of the public would support impeachment because it is a formal process that could lead to Bush's removal from office. Censure, maybe.
QUOTE(amy @ Apr 25 2006, 09:29 AM)
I don't believe the majority of the public would support impeachment because it is a formal process that could lead to Bush's removal from office. Censure, maybe.
Weighted Average: Approve = 36% Disapprove = 61%
http://www.surveyusa.com/50State2006/06041...tePOTUSNet.html
That's a LOT of folks who would support impeachment, conviction, and REMOVAL of Bush & Company.
I think this issue could be dynamite.
If the Dems ever come out of hiding.
QUOTE(amy @ Apr 25 2006, 09:29 AM)
I don't believe the majority of the public would support impeachment because it is a formal process that could lead to Bush's removal from office. Censure, maybe.
Weighted Average: Approve = 36% Disapprove = 61%
http://www.surveyusa.com/50State2006/06041...tePOTUSNet.html
That's a LOT of folks who would support impeachment, conviction, and REMOVAL of Bush & Company.
I think this issue could be dynamite.
If the Dems ever come out of hiding.
I for one think it should be done.
Bush must be repudiated.
61 percent disapprove, and the President works for the public
We cannot have 3 more years of this nonsense.
ITMFA
Bush must be repudiated.
61 percent disapprove, and the President works for the public
We cannot have 3 more years of this nonsense.
ITMFA
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Apr 25 2006, 05:17 PM)
Weighted Average: Approve = 36% Disapprove = 61%
http://www.surveyusa.com/50State2006/06041...tePOTUSNet.html
That's a LOT of folks who would support impeachment, conviction, and REMOVAL of Bush & Company.
I think this issue could be dynamite.
If the Dems ever come out of hiding.
http://www.surveyusa.com/50State2006/06041...tePOTUSNet.html
That's a LOT of folks who would support impeachment, conviction, and REMOVAL of Bush & Company.
I think this issue could be dynamite.
If the Dems ever come out of hiding.
Yes, but I really don't believe the majority who disapprove of Bush's performance would support impeachment....censure is a possibility, IMO. Censure would be fine, for me at least, because he wouldn't be removed from office anyway. You really think people want Cheney as our POTUS?
I sure don't. Would you?
QUOTE(amy @ Apr 25 2006, 02:13 PM)
Yes, but I really don't believe the majority who disapprove of Bush's performance would support impeachment....censure is a possibility, IMO. Censure would be fine, for me at least, because he wouldn't be removed from office anyway. You really think people want Cheney as our POTUS? I sure don't. Would you?
I sure don't. Would you?Impeach the whole Cabal.
Get a Dem House in November
Nancy Pelosi is President.
Ugh, but BushCo is GONE.
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Apr 25 2006, 06:19 PM)
Impeach the whole Cabal.
Get a Dem House in November
Nancy Pelosi is President.
Ugh, but BushCo is GONE.
Get a Dem House in November
Nancy Pelosi is President.
Ugh, but BushCo is GONE.
Yes, a Dem House in '06 is what I'm hoping for.....but let's be realistic...Bush will not be impeached, IMO...he and his adminstration will continue on until 2008. I'm far more concerned about 2008 than I am about impeachment...however, a censure would be great...but that's not going to happen either....after all, fibbing about a personal affair is far more of an impeachable offense that misleading a nation about the evidence for going to war...very strange times we are living in....
QUOTE(amy @ Apr 25 2006, 06:32 PM)
Yes, a Dem House in '06 is what I'm hoping for.....but let's be realistic...Bush will not be impeached, IMO...he and his adminstration will continue on until 2008. I'm far more concerned about 2008 than I am about impeachment...however, a censure would be great...but that's not going to happen either....after all, fibbing about a personal affair is far more of an impeachable offense that misleading a nation about the evidence for going to war...very strange times we are living in....
Clinton was caught for lying to a grand jury which is illegal. Of course, he had done many other things he wasn't caught for much like Al Capone who was caught for taxes.
Bush could be impeached and the people would back it.
If he keeps going down, republicans will join in as they did against Nixon
What do you folks think?
I think this is a very nice little "find", Jeff... procedural advice from the mind of a Founding Father.... but the procedural rules for the House in today's world will be crafted by Bush's defenders.
Still, I think you have a good point. If the political weight of action in one or more state legislators (it's cooking in Illinois, Vermont and California now and will spread rhizomatically, I hope), then it can't be ignored for very long on the floor of the US House.
I think this is a very nice little "find", Jeff... procedural advice from the mind of a Founding Father.... but the procedural rules for the House in today's world will be crafted by Bush's defenders.
Still, I think you have a good point. If the political weight of action in one or more state legislators (it's cooking in Illinois, Vermont and California now and will spread rhizomatically, I hope), then it can't be ignored for very long on the floor of the US House.
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Apr 25 2006, 06:51 PM)
Clinton was caught for lying to a grand jury which is illegal. Of course, he had done many other things he wasn't caught for much like Al Capone who was caught for taxes.
Bush could be impeached and the people would back it.
If he keeps going down, republicans will join in as they did against Nixon
Bush could be impeached and the people would back it.
If he keeps going down, republicans will join in as they did against Nixon
I know that Clinton lied to a grand jury about a personal affair. He shouldn't have lied. I don't know for a fact that Clinton "had done many other things he wasn't caught for...". So, I guess a grand jury has far more importance than the American public...We can be misled...that's okay with the majority of the House and Senate.....interesting priorities....Anyway, IMO, Bush will not be censured or impeached because it is not a priority for the majority of Americans and if it's not a priority for them their elected leaders in the House will not make the move. Wish they would, but I do not believe it will happen, ever.
QUOTE(Magmak1 @ Apr 25 2006, 03:27 PM)
...and will spread rhizomatically...
Now there's a $100 word for you.
QUOTE(amy @ Apr 25 2006, 08:22 PM)
I know that Clinton lied to a grand jury about a personal affair. He shouldn't have lied. I don't know for a fact that Clinton "had done many other things he wasn't caught for...". So, I guess a grand jury has far more importance than the American public...We can be misled...that's okay with the majority of the House and Senate.....interesting priorities....Anyway, IMO, Bush will not be censured or impeached because it is not a priority for the majority of Americans and if it's not a priority for them their elected leaders in the House will not make the move. Wish they would, but I do not believe it will happen, ever.
A grand jury legally DOES have more importance than opinion because there is a set of rules. Had Clinton told the truth, nothing would have happened, regardless of what. There is no exception in the books for what truth. It is THE TRUTH.
It's also not a matter that the public wants or thinks
Clinton gave them an opening that legally enabled them to do it, no matter how small the opening was (Please no pun intended at all). Bush and Cheney have not been under recent oath (although some say their presidential oath covers it).
Remember, Clinton was in the 50s and 60s at this point in his popularity, not at 32 percent
The American public IS speaking out, by dropping Bush to 32, and out of that 23 or so percent is the hardcore radical right
The shame is the democrats and others don't want Bush impeached, for the misguided thought that if Bush is impeached, and Cheney, then the Dems lose their advantage in 08 (if they have one)
You can be that in just 7 months if the Dems do win the house, impeachment WILL START the day of the inauguration and it will happen
Then if the Senate changes it will happen in the senate (and the dems that are too timid will all come out from hiding.)
But the people already have said in polls they will back an impeachment
You just have to have it get to the floor to have an inquiry, at which point anything can happen
It all comes down to the truth, the oaths, and the supenas.
QUOTE(graham4anything @ Apr 26 2006, 05:17 AM)
A grand jury legally DOES have more importance than opinion because there is a set of rules. Had Clinton told the truth, nothing would have happened, regardless of what. There is no exception in the books for what truth. It is THE TRUTH.
It's also not a matter that the public wants or thinks
Clinton gave them an opening that legally enabled them to do it, no matter how small the opening was (Please no pun intended at all). Bush and Cheney have not been under recent oath (although some say their presidential oath covers it).
Remember, Clinton was in the 50s and 60s at this point in his popularity, not at 32 percent
The American public IS speaking out, by dropping Bush to 32, and out of that 23 or so percent is the hardcore radical right
The shame is the democrats and others don't want Bush impeached, for the misguided thought that if Bush is impeached, and Cheney, then the Dems lose their advantage in 08 (if they have one)
You can be that in just 7 months if the Dems do win the house, impeachment WILL START the day of the inauguration and it will happen
Then if the Senate changes it will happen in the senate (and the dems that are too timid will all come out from hiding.)
But the people already have said in polls they will back an impeachment
You just have to have it get to the floor to have an inquiry, at which point anything can happen
It all comes down to the truth, the oaths, and the supenas.
It's also not a matter that the public wants or thinks
Clinton gave them an opening that legally enabled them to do it, no matter how small the opening was (Please no pun intended at all). Bush and Cheney have not been under recent oath (although some say their presidential oath covers it).
Remember, Clinton was in the 50s and 60s at this point in his popularity, not at 32 percent
The American public IS speaking out, by dropping Bush to 32, and out of that 23 or so percent is the hardcore radical right
The shame is the democrats and others don't want Bush impeached, for the misguided thought that if Bush is impeached, and Cheney, then the Dems lose their advantage in 08 (if they have one)
You can be that in just 7 months if the Dems do win the house, impeachment WILL START the day of the inauguration and it will happen
Then if the Senate changes it will happen in the senate (and the dems that are too timid will all come out from hiding.)
But the people already have said in polls they will back an impeachment
You just have to have it get to the floor to have an inquiry, at which point anything can happen
It all comes down to the truth, the oaths, and the supenas.
You might be right, Graham. Since support for Feingold's censuring of Bush has been dismal, I'm assuming impeachment will not gain much momentum even if the Dems win the House in 2006. But of course, I could be wrong on this. I hope I am.
QUOTE(amy @ Apr 26 2006, 03:25 AM)
You might be right, Graham. Since support for Feingold's censuring of Bush has been dismal, I'm assuming impeachment will not gain much momentum even if the Dems win the House in 2006. But of course, I could be wrong on this. I hope I am.
Sooner or later, ALL Congressmen are going to have to face the elections. I am eternally hopeful that, while the Dems are too afraid to even back Russ Feingold's call for Censure, they will have to stand and be counted if the impeachment issue is brought to the house.
According to Jefferson's Manual, it becomes TOP PRIORITY.
Cannot be ignored or referred to committee.
WE MUST KEEP THIS ISSUE ALIVE
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Apr 26 2006, 04:49 PM)
WE MUST KEEP THIS ISSUE ALIVE
I agree!!
QUOTE(jeffmoskin @ Apr 25 2006, 09:06 AM)
Jefferson's Manual was written by Thomas Jefferson as a guidebook for the US House of Representatives. It provides that, while the House has the exclusive power to bring articles of impeachment against a public officer, requests for such an impeachment have top priority and cannot be ignored.
Here is a small section:
A direct proposition to impeach is a question of high privilege in the House and at once supersedes business otherwise in order under the rules governing the order of business (III, 20-45-2048; VI, 468, 469). It may not even be superseded by an election case, which is also a matter of high privilege (III, 2581). It does not lose its privilege from the fact that a similar proposition has been made at a previous time during the same session of Congress (III, 2408), previous action of the House not affecting it (III, 2053). So, also, propositions relating to an impeachment already made are privileged (III, 2400, 2402, 2410), such as resolutions providing for selection of managers of an impeachment (VI, 517), proposing abatement of impeachment proceedings (VI, 514); but a resolution simply proposing an investigation, even though impeachment may be a possible consequence, is not privileged (III, 2060,2546;VI,463). But where a resolution of investigation positively proposes impeachment or suggests that end, it has been admitted as of privilege (III, 2051, 2052, 2401, 2402).
http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/aclunixon.html
Now we all know that there is ZERO chance that the Repub House will impeach Bush, Cheney, or anyone else in the cabal. However, as I read it (and I am not a lawyer), when Vermont's State Resolution to impeach (followed by Illinois's if they pass it) hits the "in box", IT MUST BE BROUGHT TO THE FLOOR FOR A VOTE.
PERIOD.
Now if that happens, all 435 of these folks are going to have to stand up and be counted, IMHO, as for, agin, or not present.
AND THEY WILL HAVE TO ANSWER TO THE PUBLIC IN NOVEMBER.
AND MORE THAN 60 PERCENT OF AMERICA THINKS BUSH IS DOING A BAD JOB.
What do you folks think?
Here is a small section:
A direct proposition to impeach is a question of high privilege in the House and at once supersedes business otherwise in order under the rules governing the order of business (III, 20-45-2048; VI, 468, 469). It may not even be superseded by an election case, which is also a matter of high privilege (III, 2581). It does not lose its privilege from the fact that a similar proposition has been made at a previous time during the same session of Congress (III, 2408), previous action of the House not affecting it (III, 2053). So, also, propositions relating to an impeachment already made are privileged (III, 2400, 2402, 2410), such as resolutions providing for selection of managers of an impeachment (VI, 517), proposing abatement of impeachment proceedings (VI, 514); but a resolution simply proposing an investigation, even though impeachment may be a possible consequence, is not privileged (III, 2060,2546;VI,463). But where a resolution of investigation positively proposes impeachment or suggests that end, it has been admitted as of privilege (III, 2051, 2052, 2401, 2402).
http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/aclunixon.html
Now we all know that there is ZERO chance that the Repub House will impeach Bush, Cheney, or anyone else in the cabal. However, as I read it (and I am not a lawyer), when Vermont's State Resolution to impeach (followed by Illinois's if they pass it) hits the "in box", IT MUST BE BROUGHT TO THE FLOOR FOR A VOTE.
PERIOD.
Now if that happens, all 435 of these folks are going to have to stand up and be counted, IMHO, as for, agin, or not present.
AND THEY WILL HAVE TO ANSWER TO THE PUBLIC IN NOVEMBER.
AND MORE THAN 60 PERCENT OF AMERICA THINKS BUSH IS DOING A BAD JOB.
What do you folks think?
Jeff,
I truly believe that we owe a debt of gratitude to Thomas Jefferson....this is a brilliant stroke!.....It gives the people yet one more option to pursue in the manner of impeaching a president or holding him and his administration accountable. If carried by the states and a majority of the people it forces Congress to take up the issue. And at no time has this been more needed or relevant to our concerns as it is currently. We have a Congress that might not act judiciously because it is controlled by the leadership of a disingenuous corrupt party on the one hand and an ineffective laggard one on the other. We the People need to be heard on this issue and all indications are that this action is steadily gaining momentum......
thnx for bringing this up!
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