http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50198



WND Exclusive Commentary Against a fence
Posted: May 15, 2006
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2006 WorldNetDaily.com

Dear Jorge plans to address the nation tonight, a speech wherein he will almost surely attempt to deceive citizens into believing that he does not wish the mass migration from Mexico to continue unabated. He will likely offer some negligible resources for law enforcement and border security – resources which will never materialize – in return for an amnesty program that will grant American citizenship to the Mexican nationals who have helped lower America's wage rates by 16 percent over the last 32 years.

And he will be lying, again, just as he lied when he said: "Massive deportation of the people here is unrealistic – it's just not going to work."

Not only will it work, but one can easily estimate how long it would take. If it took the Germans less than four years to rid themselves of 6 million Jews, many of whom spoke German and were fully integrated into German society, it couldn't possibly take more than eight years to deport 12 million illegal aliens, many of whom don't speak English and are not integrated into American society.

Do you see some factual problems with the title?

Unless there are death camps and the other elements of the Holocaust your chosen title is not only a lie, it's an affront to all people decent enough to oppose genocide!

I agree, and, the assumption that Mexicans are the only illegal immigrants when there are many from lots of different countries.

This is from WorldNetDaily. What do you think?

What part of my statement don't you understand? Why should my opinion changed depending on the source? It demeans victims of genocide, it's beneath contempt and dishonest.

I wonder what Bush's real motives are

As Bushfamily is the one to introduce drugs into america, especially to keep blacks firmly in the ghetto in the 1960s, and now to keep the poor down, what is bush trying to do?

There are ulterior motives at play, none of which have to do with Mexicans.

Detention facilities? Hmmm, who really is going to be put there?

Betcha it ends up being democrats.

Can't we just arrest bushfamily...we would all be more secure that way.

The title changed, it no longer equates this with the Holocaust.

I think starting immediately there should be background checks

Anyone who has in the slightest any connection whatsoever with
George W. Bush
George Herbert Walker Bush
Gerald Ford
Dick Cheney
Karl Rove
Karen Hughes
Paul Wolfovit
Richard Pearle
Jeb Bush
Anyone who worked for or in the Bush41 administration
James Baker 3rd.

should not be allowed to run for any office, should not be allowed in DC at all, and should immediately be arrested and executed for treason and if any of the above should attempt to get a new job, the same should happen to them

We must put a fence up and not allow a Bush back in DC ever again

The title of this thread was changed to the title of the article.


Cardinal
Moderating Team

Actually Haliburton was awarded the contract to build the death camps I believe. So I guess we change the title back? Actually I leave that up to the mods. The way some Republicans have wanted to shoot all immigrates on site which I believe a radio host declared, not to mention the rounding up, and making them felony I believe we are on the path of turning mexicans into Jewish people under Hitler. Isn't that what the article is suggesting we use Hitlers method of rounding up Jewish people?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/04/national...serland&emc=rss

Halliburton Subsidiary Gets Contract to Add Temporary Immigration Detention Centers

WASHINGTON, Feb. 3 — The Army Corps of Engineers has awarded a contract worth up to $385 million for building temporary immigration detention centers to Kellogg Brown & Root, the Halliburton subsidiary that has been criticized for overcharging the Pentagon for its work in Iraq.

KBR would build the centers for the Homeland Security Department for an unexpected influx of immigrants, to house people in the event of a natural disaster or for new programs that require additional detention space, company executives said. KBR, which announced the contract last month, had a similar contract with immigration agencies from 2000 to last year.

The contract with the Corps of Engineers runs one year, with four optional one-year extensions. Officials of the corps said that they had solicited bids and that KBR was the lone responder.

A spokeswoman for Immigration and Customs Enforcement, Jamie Zuieback, said KBR would build the centers only in an emergency like the one when thousands of Cubans floated on rafts to the United States. She emphasized that the centers might never be built if such an emergency did not arise.

"It's the type of contract that could be used in some kind of mass migration," Ms. Zuieback said.

A spokesman for the corps, Clayton Church, said that the centers could be at unused military sites or temporary structures and that each one would hold up to 5,000 people.

"When there's a large influx of people into the United States, how are we going to feed, house and protect them?" Mr. Church asked. "That's why these kinds of contracts are there."

Mr. Church said that KBR did not end up creating immigration centers under its previous contract, but that it did build temporary shelters for Hurricane Katrina evacuees.

Federal auditors rebuked the company for unsubstantiated billing in its Iraq reconstruction contracts, and it has been criticized because of accusations that Halliburton, led by Dick Cheney before he became vice president, was aided by connections in obtaining contracts. Halliburton executives denied that they charged excessively for the work in Iraq.

Mr. Church said concerns about the Iraq contracts did not affect the awarding of the new contract.

Representative Henry A. Waxman, Democrat of California, who has monitored the company, called the contract worrisome.

"With Halliburton's ever expanding track record of overcharging, it's hard to believe that the administration has decided to entrust Halliburton with even more taxpayer dollars," Mr. Waxman said. "With each new contract, the need for real oversight grows."

In recent months, the Homeland Security Department has promised to increase bed space in its detention centers to hold thousands of illegal immigrants awaiting deportation. In the first quarter of the 2006 fiscal year, nearly 60 percent of the illegal immigrants apprehended from countries other than Mexico were released on their own recognizance.

Domestic security officials have promised to end the releases by increasing the number of detention beds. Last week, domestic security officials announced that they would expand detaining and swiftly deporting illegal immigrants to include those seized near the Canadian border.

Advocates for immigrants said they feared that the new contract was another indication that the government planned to expand the detention of illegal immigrants, including those seeking asylum.

"It's pretty obvious that the intent of the government is to detain more and more people and to expedite their removal," said Cheryl Little, executive director of the Florida Immigrant Advocacy Center in Miami.

Ms. Zuieback said the KBR contract was not intended for that.

"It's not part of any day-to-day enforcement," she said.

She added that she could not provide additional information about the company's statement that the contract was also meant to support the rapid development of new programs.

Halliburton executives, who announced the contract last week, said they were pleased.

"We are especially gratified to be awarded this contract," an executive vice president, Bruce Stanski, said in a statement, "because it builds on our extremely strong track record in the arena of emergency management support."

http://www.kpho.com/Global/story.asp?S=4743627&nav=23Ku

Goddard asks feds to investigate talk show host's comments

PHOENIX Attorney General Goddard and U-S Attorney Paul Charlton today sent a letter to Federal Communications Commission Chairman Kevin Martin.
They're calling his attention to remarks made by K-F-Y-I Radio host Brian James last month.

According to a transcript, during one segment of his show, James suggested a solution to the immigration problem was to randomly pick one night a week to kill anyone coming across the border.

In the letter, Goddard and Charlton say this type of threatening and inciting speech is dangerous and totally irresponsible for anyone using the public airways.

K-F-Y-I program director Laurie Cantillo (can-TEE'-yoh) denies that James's comments were dangerous or irresponsible. Cantillo wouldn't say whether she was worried about the F-C-C possibly launching an investigation.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=50004

Mexican flag burning on Cinco de Mayo
Man arrested last month to repeat act in protest of illegal-alien flow

A Tucson man arrested last month after burning a Mexican flag in protest plans to burn another one this weekend during public Cinco de Mayo festivities.

Roy Warden was arrested April 11, the day after he burned a Mexican flag while demonstrating against the flow of illegal aliens into the United States over the southern border. The activist was not arrested on the scene but was picked up the next day – he says because members of the Tucson City Council requested the action after receiving complaints. Warden faces charges of assault, criminal damage and reckless burning. He has pleaded not guilty to all charges.

According to the Arizona Star, Warden and members of Border Guardians burned the flag at Armory Park surrounded by hundreds of pro-illegals demonstrators.

"Here in Tucson, Cinco de Mayo is a three-day celebration," Warden told WND, noting he would burn a Mexican flag at the most politically oriented pro-open borders public event, whether Friday, Saturday or Sunday.

"I will be surrounded by any number of Tucson police officers who will provide me with security so I may engage in this First Amendment activity," Warden said, noting he and the police "have a very warm and cordial relationship."

Warden claims the political atmosphere in Pima County is staunchly pro-illegal immigration, with "high-level county officials while on paid county time engaging in open-borders activity."

Added the activist: "It's absolutely the norm here in Pima County."

Warden says his goal is to get the Hispanics who are opposed to open borders to turn up the heat within their own community.

"I've gotten many calls from Hispanics who are lawful," he claimed. "They can't stand the crime; they can't stand the lower-paying jobs because they're getting kicked out of jobs [to make room for] people willing to work for nothing."

Warden added : "I want these lawful Hispanics to drive these people (illegals) out and tell them to go home."

The protester chose the Mexican flag to burn, he says, because it's being waved in demonstrations across the United States "as a symbol of political domination. It's not a cultural symbol; flags are a political symbol."

Warden's message to Mexicans in the U.S. illegally: "Go back to Mexico and overturn your own corrupt government. Don't come here and try to control ours."

Comparing his action to what civil-rights protesters did in the '60s, Warden said, "It's time to take extraordinary measures through the courts and through personal confrontation."

Said Warden: "We're talking about legal but extremely organized and extremely provocative First Amendment activities."

Warden says he does not expect to be arrested this weekend for burning the Mexican flag, saying he's sure he will be acquitted of April's charges after the police officers who witnessed his action testify in court.

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/04/10/murder...order-crossers/


Right-Wing Radio Host Advocates Murdering Border Crossers

Right-wing radio host Brian James of KFYI in Arizona recently advocated murder as a way of dealing with undocumented immigrants. An excerpt:

What we’ll do is randomly pick one night - every week - where we will kill whoever crosses the border. Step over there and you die. You get to decide whether it’s your lucky night or not. I think that would be more fun…[I’d be] happy to sit there with my high-powered rifle and my night scope.

The remarks prompted Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard and U.S. Attorney Paul Charlton to send a complaint to the FCC. Here’s a portion:

At no time during this hour did Mr. James disavow violence or indicate he was joking. In fact, when one caller suggested Mr. James did not really mean he wanted to shoot and kill immigrants, Mr. James retorted that in fact he did mean it. Immediately after this exchange, Mr. James engaged the next caller in a discussion about the correct ammunition to use when shooting border crossers to make sure the shots would be fatal.

This type of threatening and inciting speech is dangerous and totally irresponsible for anyone, particularly a licensed body using public airways.

Brian James has not apologized and claims his comments were “satire.” Later, for a story on the KFYI website, James said “KFYI does not advocate shooting illegals. It might be fun, but they don’t advocate it.”

Make up your own mind about whether James meant it or not. You can listen to the audio HERE. (Click “KFYI audio” to start the recording.) You can contact KFYI with your views at chickboss@kfyi.com.

http://images1.americanprogress.org/il80we...ss/2006/ain.swf

Jason,

I don' t believe that the U.S. government has any intention of "rounding up" any group of people for the purpose of exterminating them or isolating them from our society because of their race, religion, or nationality. Hitler's purpose for "rounding up the Jewish people was a step in his plan to exterminate the Jews from Europe. And who are the "some Republicans" who want to shoot immigrants on sight?

Jason,

Your lies and offensiveness are too far beyond the pale, your behavior is a disgrace to the entire human race.

From what you're posting even Bush has a better ethical code.

I posted the audio file of it and remember we have rounded japanese people up before so we do have a history of rounding people up. I think it all depends on what happens with the poll numbers. We've already seen Bush speak out tonight so you know he is giving the right lip service. The site I posted was a right-wing website. The question is how emotional do we allow these people to get in order to sway a election? Plus we know the republicans in the house were willing to pass a bill in order to declare all immigrants felons.

You're either saying that if you can imagine it it's true or that the Holocaust was imaginary. If it's the first your abuse of genocide victims to pretend you have a valid point is despicable, cheap and dishonest, if it's the latter it doesn't even speak that well of you.

Is there a valid reason why we're posting right-wing rag articles here? This does nothing to further discussion. We have an election to win in 2006, this is not helpful. End sermon.

Cardinal
Moderating Team

No fence will keep them out. We have to enforce the wage and benefit laws first. Then steep fines and eventual jail time for knowingly hiring illegal immigrants in significant numbers.

Actually I believe it does because before we can look to any elections we must first be willing to understand the extremes of a issues. I know it's a emotional topic, but are we only going to see one side of the issue? Plus this is something to watch out for because if democrats are willing to cave into Republicans in the house on this issue then the more extreme such as these people have more room to flex their muscles. If we are going to decide a position on something we must sway away from emotion and think with logic in the long term of our country. This is just one of those things were emotion can be a good thing, but also a bad thing if people do not allow themself to step outside of the box.

Fine, you being intentionally as offensive as possible and about as honest as Rove is good, my not seeing you're the new Messiah for doing it is bad and blind.

You've got one hell of a lot of growing up to do, if you're this way in real life too you might not get the time to do it.

Our problems are due to our refusal to manage our Trade and Foriegn Policies properly. If we engage in support for Dictatorships, and then allow our corporations to set-up in those countries in order to exploit cheap labor. The greed and despotism will cause suffering. Those people will eventually have to flee here, and to other "first world" countries to attempt to have a better life.

Illegal immigrants have broken the law. Period. Why should they and their employers not be prosecuted? And maybe it's a good idea to make illegal entry into this nation a felony. Might make some think twice before crossing the border, illegally.

I wanted to show the extremes before I posted this article. Hopefully a different look at things.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...S0103/605150347

Raids fill Hispanics with fear
Legal or not, many stay at home
BY RYAN CLARK AND KAREN GUTIÉRREZ | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITERS

FLORENCE - Yolanda Wysocki spent part of last week begging Hispanic parents to send their children back to Collins Elementary School.

But the parents were afraid. On Tuesday, 76 allegedly undocumented immigrants had been arrested in Florence. Could the same happen to them or their children?

The roundup has drawn attention to Florence's Hispanic residents, less than 4 percent of the population.

Theirs is a world in which some are now staying locked inside their homes, fearful of police. Others have proper documentation, yet are met with suspicious glances. Still others - resigned to the risk of deportation - continue to openly look for work.

Collins Elementary School has 80 students in a special program for English language learners. The day of the arrests, 10 were absent.

One mother kept her children at home because her husband had been taken away by authorities that day.

Another was afraid to put her children on the bus because she thought she might never see them again, said Wysocki, an assistant teacher in the English-language program and a native of Mexico.

"Some of the little ones are scared the police will come and take them away," she said. "These are my people, so yes, it makes me sad to see them this way.

"These people work hard to have a better life, and as a whole, they want to succeed," Wysocki said.

Later in the week, children began returning to the program, so that by Friday, only two were still absent, Wysocki said.

'I DO NOT FEEL SAFE'

In an anonymous letter printed this week in La Jornada Latina, a Spanish-language newspaper that circulates in Northern Kentucky, a resident expressed the new fear.

"Everybody is saying that we can't even be safe in our houses, because they can enter. This radically changes our lives, and we don't know for how long," the person wrote in Spanish. "Now when I see a police car, I do not feel safe, because we all know the police and immigration are working together."

Not all immigrants are so worried, however.

Sergio Valenciano and his cousin, Guadelupe Valenciano, of Erlanger, are still visiting construction sites, asking if anyone needs workers.

They said the roundup should not have surprised anyone, because the U.S. government had been sending signals that crackdowns were coming.

"We're worried a little, but we knew it had to happen," Sergio Valenciano said in Spanish. "It's the law."

The men said this week's arrests have been most troubling to immigrants who are here with their entire families and hope to remain. They're the ones with the most to lose, they said.

But they don't necessarily represent the majority of undocumented workers, the cousins said. Many are single men who accept that they may have to return to their home countries if work dries up or they are caught without documentation.

Sergio Valenciano, 30, has been working in the United States off and on for about 13 years. He generally flies into the country on a tourist visa, he said, and returns to Mexico periodically.

If he has to leave the United States again soon, so be it.

"I say, many thanks to them," Sergio said of his Northern Kentucky employers. "I've built houses in Mexico. I have cars there. I have worked a lot."

NOT EASY TO BECOME LEGAL

It's important to remember that many Hispanics in Northern Kentucky have proper documentation, and not all are from Mexico, said Iversy Velez, a Puerto Rican lawyer with a practice in Florence.

For several years, the Kenton County library has helped assemble a booklet of personal histories written by local Hispanics. The writers have represented not just Mexico but also Colombia, El Salvador, Ecuador, the Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico and Venezuela.

Their journeys have been widely varied. One man wrote that he paid $6,000 to a guide who led him and others across the desert. Another described how she came to visit her sister, a student at Xavier University, and never left.

For those who do enter the country illegally, earning permanent, legal residency is nearly impossible.

Some people have the notion that illegal immigrants can solve their problems by marrying U.S. citizens. But that's not true, said Marilyn Zayas-Davis, an immigration lawyer in Cincinnati.

Legal changes in 1997 barred illegal immigrants from earning residency through marriage. If the immigrants leave the country for any reason, they are not allowed to return legally for 10 years.

'LAY LOW AND PRAY'

"My advice for them is to lay low and pray for the laws to change," Zayas-Davis said

For Wysocki, all she can do is hope that the immigrants - legal and illegal - bring their children back to school.

"This is a culture that really wishes for their next generation to study," Wysocki said. "They tell their children, 'You're my only hope. I don't want you cleaning floors like I do.' "

I agree with the changes you say we need (including the ones in the other post), I just don't think they should be done without extra security measures at the same time. For example proper workplace enforcement will probably take several years, something else has to be done concurrently.

The concurrent solutions are a sham. Mexico is an Oligarchy. As long as we don't engage that problem (i.e. a phony democracy on our border) we will have this problem. We will make this a political football and nothing will get better for anyone. The government of this country is supposed to protect the interests of the citizens. If the Socio-Economic conditions in a bordering country is as it is in Mexico then those problems will bleed over into our country. Instead of pressuring Mexico to reform itself we allow the greediest people in our country to exploit and extend the problem there.

Like I said, I agree we have to deal with that (as a first priority), but that's probably even longer term than what can be done within our borders. To be blunt they let things degrade to a point where we plain don't have the luxury of just waiting for the impact of good policies to kick in. I agree border security won't solve it alone, long term I don't even consider it a major factor in illegal immigration (although it does have other value), but as a factor to allow us to tread water while we ramp up rational policies it plays a crucial role.

Having said that I have little to no confidence that our government will do even a substantial amount of the policy changes required.

I agree with you and that is why its so sad. We have about 5 mexicans living next door to us. I've seen this neigherhood change from a white and black neigherhood to more mexican. A middle school up here now has their signs in spanish maybe english I haven't seen the back side. What really gets me is my mother who doesn't know politics always makes racist remarks about how they are coming into our area even if they are legal. It's becoming easier to blame a person because of their skin instead of looking at the true problems. I'm actually worried for anyone who is a native born mexican or is legal because they are being grouped and looked upon the same as illegals. It's their skin people are seeing and not if they are Americans.

I agree tomhye that we need a temporary quicker "solution". I say we should begin to heavily fine and arrest those employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants. We should also go after those who provide forged documents. If we did that now instead of tracking American citizens phone calls illegally we would begin to address the problem.



I am acutely aware of that. My skin color and appearance makes that so.

I am sorry To me I see it as the same way they used being gay as a wedge issue. I do not think skin color should mean anything just as sexual orientation. I think what I've noticed from being my skin color in a area that is changing which makes me a minority here is that people fear being different. A lot of the emotion that others have right now is out of fear. Personally I have no problem, but then again when I'm around someone speaking another languag I've always tried to observe what it means not to be able to understand. Personally I think it's a experience many of us Americans need. Most would gain wisedom from it while others would turn to the extreme to make sure they are never in a place like that again. I guess with me I just respect other peoples culture and want to learn from them in order to grow in my own outlook of life. It's the same with facing the extreme nature of a issue. Without knowing the effect of what you are pushing you will never understand how the people you push that onto feel.

That's why we have an imagination. If we imagine ourselves in another's shoes we can get some clue.

Sure, but we also have to go after the smuggling industry itself. Think of it this way, the reforms we need in this country would reduce the demand for illegal workers but it would also raise the economic incentive for those who succeed, pretty much a wash.(although these reforms are vital for many reasons) If we raise the price of and lower the number of coyotes that brings the equation into our favor. I believe this (along with SERIOUS foreign policy changes) will help lay the groundwork for the reforms Mexicans so desperately need (as well as at least 60 other countries around the world).

I think the resources wasted on things like the expanded NSA programs should be spent in ways that actually increase security, that's being ignored as much as sane policy to gain control over immigration.

I totally agree. That's why we need competent and integritous leadership. No more Bozos!

Precisely. The WTO are all criminals and ought to be executed or imprisoned at the least. So too should anyone who worked for the IMF and World Bank. Citigroup and Morgan are also suspects. Also, the large corporations like Nestles, Star$$$$$ etc. The WHO are murderers of the first degree, planning and carrying out millions and millions of murders through Trojan Horse (Aids). Then the pharmaceutical companies SELLING poisons to the countries who can least afford it in order to control the population. They too should be shot at dawn.

The problem is easley solved. After the first 3 corporate CEO's are in federal prison the jobs for illegal workers will dry up and they will go home.

Wait you want the US to do things that directly affect the way another sovereign nation runs their country? Do you not see the hypocrisy in this statement. I don't disagree with what you are saying, but hope you are contradicting yourself when you argue against our involvement in Iraq, afghanistan, etc... I have seen on this forum the argument used that Iraq is a soveriegn country and the US has no business interfering with their policies etc.....

Wrong again GOPGuy. I never said we have no right to influence another country. I never said we should not have invaded Afghanistan. In fact I was in support of the invasion. Iraq was a monumental mistake because they did not attack us and Saddam was contained, etc.. Mexico is affecting us directly because they are on our border. Any country that we engage in trade with affects us, at least economically, such as India and China. Generally speaking, and as a matter of principle, we should mind our own business. However, if engaging in trade or if through our Foriegn Policies we support a dictatorship with a captive slave labor force that we allow the Pirates in our midst to exploit, then we do so at our eventual peril (one way or another). You wrong imply that I'm saying we should "control" Mexico. I am not a Republican, I believe diplomacy, economic and political engagement is whats needed to put pressure on Mexico to reform it's phony democracy, and improve the economic lives of it's citizens. It is in our interest to do so.

And watch who you're calling a hypocrite. I'll take no guff from the likes of you.

I am not calling you a hypocrit. I saw my post and I needs to be editted asd I left out a few words which, with them left out, may make you think I was singling you out. I should have read I hope you are not contradicting yourself. I cannot rememeber who said what when more than a few days back. The point I am trying to make is that many lefties on this forum have used the argument against going into Iraq.