Full Version: Lest we forget...and become extinct
I’ve lived my 57 years on the New Mexico, Mexican border, nobody’s asked me what I thought.
My first thought is, Dobbs and Co, are a bunch of clueless fools. It appears they are doing the classic knee jerk reaction to what truly is a serious situation. Forgotten is our 2,000 mile border between Canada and Alaska. Also forgotten is our almost 4,000 miles of border between Canada and the continental United States. How can a realistic discussion continue when 75% of our borders are not included in this discussion? Has anyone heard any realistic data on illegal crossing going on with the major portion of our borders, or just the border that separates us from Mexico?
Here we have a poll done to satisfy Lou Dobbs mania about our “brown” friends to our south. I have gone through this poll and indicated where it is more than just a little faulty;
3. Would you favor or oppose each of the following proposals:
Favor Oppose No opinion
a. Building a fence along the 2,000-mile border
with Mexico
favor 45%
oppose 50%
no opinion 5%
b. Imposing fines of tens of thousands of dollars
on employers who hire illegal immigrants
favor 60%
oppose 36%
no opinion 4%
c. Sending employers who hire illegal immigrants
to jail
favor 40%
oppose55%
no opinion 5%
d. Putting more Border Patrol and federal law
enforcement agents on the U.S. border with Mexico,
favor 78%
oppose 19%
no opinion 3%
e. Sending National Guard troops to the U.S. border
with Mexico,
favor 56%
oppose40%
no opinion 4%
e; it is not explained in what capacity would our Guard be working on the border in this question, and it is not explained that due to "Posse Comitatus" our military is prohibited from performing police or military type duties within the United States.
4. Do you approve or disapprove of the U.S. government deporting illegal immigrants to the country
they came from?
Approve 67%
Disapprove 25%
No opinion 8%
4; does not refer to the fact that children born in the United States are American citizens, and that deporting their parents is immoral and un-American due to the fact that it would orphan the millions of kids who not by choice were born in the USA. Or to the fact that legally we can not deport the American citizen children.
5. Would you like to see the number of illegal immigrants currently in this country increased, decreased,
or remain the same?
5A. (IF DECREASED) Would you like to see the number of illegal immigrants decreased only a little,
decreased a lot, or would you like to see all illegal immigrants who are currently in the country
removed from the U.S.?
Here is a classic Dobbs question, stupid, stupid, feeds the mania IMHO. See question 4.
6. Do you think children born in the United States whose parents are not U.S. citizens should or should
not automatically become U.S. citizens?
A simple Amendment to our Constitution would fix this problem, if American morality would allow it.
Should become citizens 54%
Should not become citizens 40%
No opinion 6%
But according to these numbers, an Amendment wouldn’t stand a chance.
7. Do you think the government of Mexico encourages or discourages illegal immigration of its citizens
into the United States?
Another stupid Dobbs question since we have little or no influence over the Mexican Government, what can be done other than P.O. our neighbors.
Excluded in this question is the reason so many Mexicans and other neighbors from the south want to come to the USA in the first place.
8. Do you think the government of Mexico has or has not done enough to stop illegal drugs from coming
into the United States? (ASKED OF HALF SAMPLE)
Done enough 8%
Not done enough 83%
No opinion 9%
8; The last statistic I saw on how many Americans smoke pot, was something like 10% or 30 million Americans. Sounds like they are providing a needed service. I will agree that Heroin and Meth should be stamped out, but don’t cut off the pot smokers.
9. Do you think the government of Mexico is very responsible, somewhat responsible, not very
responsible, or not responsible at all for the amount of illegal drugs currently coming into the United
States? (ASKED OF HALF SAMPLE)
More Dobbsesque questions. We can all pretty much agree that most third world nations, and that includes our neighbors to the south, are heavily involved with anything that brings in the cash. What would you expect when they see American TV every day, that they would not hunger for money or a lifestyle similar to ours.
10. Do you favor a law making English the official language of the United States, or do you oppose such
a law?
Favor 75%
Oppose 22%
No opinion 3%
Our first Spanish speaking residents have lived in New Mexico, Arizona and California since before the American Constitution. Santa Fe and Messia New Mexico were founded in the 1500’s, and have spoken Spanish for over 400 years, they ask if Spanish shouldn’t be the first language, they were here long before any of your family.
11. Do you think people who cannot read or write English should be permitted to vote, or not?
Permitted to vote 41%
Not permitted to vote 53%
No opinion 5%
11; New Mexico votes a trilingual ballot, English, Spanish, and Navajo, oh, native Americans, Dobbs has forgotten all about them hasn’t he.
12. Do you think people from other countries who want to immigrate to the U.S. should or should not be
required to have a certain level of education?
Should be required 46%
Should not be required 47%
No opinion 7%
12; Here we can reaffirm our prejudices before we invite an immigrant into the American fold. Dobbs has forgotten the part where many of these people did not have the opportunities we have, for job training or education.
13. Do you think people from other countries who want to immigrate to the U.S. should or should not be
required to show they have a certain level of job skills?
Should be required 63%
Should not be required 32%
No opinion 5%
13; see #12
14. Do you think people from other countries who want to immigrate to the U.S. should or should not be
required to show they do not have a criminal record?
Should be required 93%
Should not be required 5%
No opinion 1%
14; what if it is not possible to prove they are innocent, should they be kept out. Can you prove you never did anything wrong?
15. When someone is arrested, do you think the police should be required to determine whether that
person is a U.S. citizen?
Should be required 83%
Should not be required 14%
No opinion 3%
15; here we go, a national ID card, just like in Europe in the 1930’s. Does your drivers license prove you are a citizen?
16. When someone applies to a social service agency for assistance such as welfare or food stamps do
you think that agency should or should not be required to check whether that person is a U.S. citizen
and record their citizenship status?
Should be required 91%
Should not be required 7%
No opinion 2%
16; here is one that is doable, and probably should be done.
17. When someone goes to a hospital for treatment, do you think the hospital should or should not be
required to check whether that person is a U.S. citizen and record their citizenship status?
Should be required 43%
Should not be required 51%
No opinion 6%
17; and in the meantime, you can bleed all over the sidewalk in front of the hospital, come on Lou, even you can do better than this.
18. When someone applies for a job, do you think the employer should or should not check whether that
person is a U.S. citizen and record their citizenship status?
Should check 91%
Should not check 7%
No opinion 2%
18; I’ve never been checked, maybe because I’m an average white guy, hey I could have snuck in from Canada.
19. Which of the following statements comes closer to your view:
The U.S. could prevent all illegal immigration if
it enforced its existing laws on immigration
and border security 40%
The U.S. needs to pass new laws to deal with
illegal immigration 52%
No opinion 8%
19; feeding the mania, maybe some one smarter than Dobbs could help find solutions that fit our basic American ideals. I say none of the above.
20. Which of the following statements comes closer to your view of illegal immigrants:
They strengthen the economy by increasing the
number of people who buy goods and services
and by providing low-wage labor that allows
businesses to keep their prices low 30%
They weaken the economy by using public services
like health care and by allowing companies to
pay lower wages to other workers 58%
No opinion 12%
20; Pure BS, realistic research has yet to be done. Several Universities are working on these questions, maybe we should work towards real answers.
Without exception, everyone I’ve talked too along the border agrees. With the lifestyle at a third world level just to our south, where they can watch American TV. The motivation to go north to take advantage of America’s bounty is overwhelming. If you lived the rags, and a hundred yards away were the riches, wouldn’t you scheme on going north? Go visit El Paso Texas, you can see first hand what I mean. The El Paso, Juarez metroplex is about 2 million strong, yet only a quarter of these people live in the US. All of them watch El Paso TV and see the beauty and bounty of the American lifestyle on a daily basis.
If we really want a smart solution to these problems, we have to take a pass on the Dobbs ideal of working the knee jerk reaction to accomplish what is needed.
IMHO we have to find ways of elevating the lives on the south side so they no longer crave the idea of going north in the first place. I don’t believe it would require they have Americana down south, but it would require they see some serious improvements over what they see t
My first thought is, Dobbs and Co, are a bunch of clueless fools. It appears they are doing the classic knee jerk reaction to what truly is a serious situation. Forgotten is our 2,000 mile border between Canada and Alaska. Also forgotten is our almost 4,000 miles of border between Canada and the continental United States. How can a realistic discussion continue when 75% of our borders are not included in this discussion? Has anyone heard any realistic data on illegal crossing going on with the major portion of our borders, or just the border that separates us from Mexico?
Here we have a poll done to satisfy Lou Dobbs mania about our “brown” friends to our south. I have gone through this poll and indicated where it is more than just a little faulty;
3. Would you favor or oppose each of the following proposals:
Favor Oppose No opinion
a. Building a fence along the 2,000-mile border
with Mexico
favor 45%
oppose 50%
no opinion 5%
b. Imposing fines of tens of thousands of dollars
on employers who hire illegal immigrants
favor 60%
oppose 36%
no opinion 4%
c. Sending employers who hire illegal immigrants
to jail
favor 40%
oppose55%
no opinion 5%
d. Putting more Border Patrol and federal law
enforcement agents on the U.S. border with Mexico,
favor 78%
oppose 19%
no opinion 3%
e. Sending National Guard troops to the U.S. border
with Mexico,
favor 56%
oppose40%
no opinion 4%
e; it is not explained in what capacity would our Guard be working on the border in this question, and it is not explained that due to "Posse Comitatus" our military is prohibited from performing police or military type duties within the United States.
4. Do you approve or disapprove of the U.S. government deporting illegal immigrants to the country
they came from?
Approve 67%
Disapprove 25%
No opinion 8%
4; does not refer to the fact that children born in the United States are American citizens, and that deporting their parents is immoral and un-American due to the fact that it would orphan the millions of kids who not by choice were born in the USA. Or to the fact that legally we can not deport the American citizen children.
5. Would you like to see the number of illegal immigrants currently in this country increased, decreased,
or remain the same?
5A. (IF DECREASED) Would you like to see the number of illegal immigrants decreased only a little,
decreased a lot, or would you like to see all illegal immigrants who are currently in the country
removed from the U.S.?
Here is a classic Dobbs question, stupid, stupid, feeds the mania IMHO. See question 4.
6. Do you think children born in the United States whose parents are not U.S. citizens should or should
not automatically become U.S. citizens?
A simple Amendment to our Constitution would fix this problem, if American morality would allow it.
Should become citizens 54%
Should not become citizens 40%
No opinion 6%
But according to these numbers, an Amendment wouldn’t stand a chance.
7. Do you think the government of Mexico encourages or discourages illegal immigration of its citizens
into the United States?
Another stupid Dobbs question since we have little or no influence over the Mexican Government, what can be done other than P.O. our neighbors.
Excluded in this question is the reason so many Mexicans and other neighbors from the south want to come to the USA in the first place.
8. Do you think the government of Mexico has or has not done enough to stop illegal drugs from coming
into the United States? (ASKED OF HALF SAMPLE)
Done enough 8%
Not done enough 83%
No opinion 9%
8; The last statistic I saw on how many Americans smoke pot, was something like 10% or 30 million Americans. Sounds like they are providing a needed service. I will agree that Heroin and Meth should be stamped out, but don’t cut off the pot smokers.
9. Do you think the government of Mexico is very responsible, somewhat responsible, not very
responsible, or not responsible at all for the amount of illegal drugs currently coming into the United
States? (ASKED OF HALF SAMPLE)
More Dobbsesque questions. We can all pretty much agree that most third world nations, and that includes our neighbors to the south, are heavily involved with anything that brings in the cash. What would you expect when they see American TV every day, that they would not hunger for money or a lifestyle similar to ours.
10. Do you favor a law making English the official language of the United States, or do you oppose such
a law?
Favor 75%
Oppose 22%
No opinion 3%
Our first Spanish speaking residents have lived in New Mexico, Arizona and California since before the American Constitution. Santa Fe and Messia New Mexico were founded in the 1500’s, and have spoken Spanish for over 400 years, they ask if Spanish shouldn’t be the first language, they were here long before any of your family.
11. Do you think people who cannot read or write English should be permitted to vote, or not?
Permitted to vote 41%
Not permitted to vote 53%
No opinion 5%
11; New Mexico votes a trilingual ballot, English, Spanish, and Navajo, oh, native Americans, Dobbs has forgotten all about them hasn’t he.
12. Do you think people from other countries who want to immigrate to the U.S. should or should not be
required to have a certain level of education?
Should be required 46%
Should not be required 47%
No opinion 7%
12; Here we can reaffirm our prejudices before we invite an immigrant into the American fold. Dobbs has forgotten the part where many of these people did not have the opportunities we have, for job training or education.
13. Do you think people from other countries who want to immigrate to the U.S. should or should not be
required to show they have a certain level of job skills?
Should be required 63%
Should not be required 32%
No opinion 5%
13; see #12
14. Do you think people from other countries who want to immigrate to the U.S. should or should not be
required to show they do not have a criminal record?
Should be required 93%
Should not be required 5%
No opinion 1%
14; what if it is not possible to prove they are innocent, should they be kept out. Can you prove you never did anything wrong?
15. When someone is arrested, do you think the police should be required to determine whether that
person is a U.S. citizen?
Should be required 83%
Should not be required 14%
No opinion 3%
15; here we go, a national ID card, just like in Europe in the 1930’s. Does your drivers license prove you are a citizen?
16. When someone applies to a social service agency for assistance such as welfare or food stamps do
you think that agency should or should not be required to check whether that person is a U.S. citizen
and record their citizenship status?
Should be required 91%
Should not be required 7%
No opinion 2%
16; here is one that is doable, and probably should be done.
17. When someone goes to a hospital for treatment, do you think the hospital should or should not be
required to check whether that person is a U.S. citizen and record their citizenship status?
Should be required 43%
Should not be required 51%
No opinion 6%
17; and in the meantime, you can bleed all over the sidewalk in front of the hospital, come on Lou, even you can do better than this.
18. When someone applies for a job, do you think the employer should or should not check whether that
person is a U.S. citizen and record their citizenship status?
Should check 91%
Should not check 7%
No opinion 2%
18; I’ve never been checked, maybe because I’m an average white guy, hey I could have snuck in from Canada.
19. Which of the following statements comes closer to your view:
The U.S. could prevent all illegal immigration if
it enforced its existing laws on immigration
and border security 40%
The U.S. needs to pass new laws to deal with
illegal immigration 52%
No opinion 8%
19; feeding the mania, maybe some one smarter than Dobbs could help find solutions that fit our basic American ideals. I say none of the above.
20. Which of the following statements comes closer to your view of illegal immigrants:
They strengthen the economy by increasing the
number of people who buy goods and services
and by providing low-wage labor that allows
businesses to keep their prices low 30%
They weaken the economy by using public services
like health care and by allowing companies to
pay lower wages to other workers 58%
No opinion 12%
20; Pure BS, realistic research has yet to be done. Several Universities are working on these questions, maybe we should work towards real answers.
Without exception, everyone I’ve talked too along the border agrees. With the lifestyle at a third world level just to our south, where they can watch American TV. The motivation to go north to take advantage of America’s bounty is overwhelming. If you lived the rags, and a hundred yards away were the riches, wouldn’t you scheme on going north? Go visit El Paso Texas, you can see first hand what I mean. The El Paso, Juarez metroplex is about 2 million strong, yet only a quarter of these people live in the US. All of them watch El Paso TV and see the beauty and bounty of the American lifestyle on a daily basis.
If we really want a smart solution to these problems, we have to take a pass on the Dobbs ideal of working the knee jerk reaction to accomplish what is needed.
IMHO we have to find ways of elevating the lives on the south side so they no longer crave the idea of going north in the first place. I don’t believe it would require they have Americana down south, but it would require they see some serious improvements over what they see t
Who said American workers wouldn't do jobs illegals do?
Loss for one is another's gain
Applicants line up to fill jobs left empty by Swift plant raid
Darin McGregor © News
Travis Stoltz, 19, of Greeley, uses the glass door at the entrance of the Weld County Human Services office as a writing surface as he fills out an application for a job at the Swift & Co. meatpacking plant in Greeley. Applications were being taken for positions that opened because of Tuesday's raid by agents of the federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency.STORY TOOLS
GREELEY - The line of applicants hoping to fill jobs vacated by undocumented workers taken away by immigration agents at the Swift & Co. meat-processing plant earlier this week was out the door Thursday.
Among them was Derrick Stegall, who carefully filled out paperwork he hoped would get him an interview and eventually land him a job as a slaughterer. Two of his friends had been taken away by Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents and he felt compelled to fill their rubber boots.
"Luckily, they had no wives or family they left behind. But it was still sad. They left their apartments filled with all their stuff. I took two dogs one of them had. The other guy had a cat I gave to my sister," he said.
Greg Bonifacio heard about the job openings on television and brought his passport, his Colorado driver's license, his Social Security card and even a color photograph of himself as a young Naval officer to prove his military service.
"I don't want to hassle with any identification problems because of my last name," said Bonifacio, a 59- year-old Thornton resident of Filipino heritage.
As it turned out, the Colorado Workforce office that was taking applications did not require any identification.
That would come later for those who made it past the interview process.
Bonifacio was hoping to get a job in production or fabrication. So was Nathan Korgan, a former construction worker whose company closed and moved to California.
"I feel bad for the kids, but good for me," said Korgan of Tuesday's raid.
Like many others who had mixed emotions about the raid, Maxine Hernandez said she was upset that families were torn apart, but believes illegal immigrants should not get work using fake documents.
"I guess I'm in the middle," she said. "But I do think they should have planned (the raid) better so that innocent children wouldn't be left behind."
Hernandez, who had gone to the employment office because her husband was there to apply for unemployment insurance, decided to apply for a job at Swift on a whim.
"My whole family used to work there. My mom, my aunt, uncles," she said. "I guess it sort of runs in our blood."
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/loca...5215724,00.html
Loss for one is another's gain
Applicants line up to fill jobs left empty by Swift plant raid
Darin McGregor © News
Travis Stoltz, 19, of Greeley, uses the glass door at the entrance of the Weld County Human Services office as a writing surface as he fills out an application for a job at the Swift & Co. meatpacking plant in Greeley. Applications were being taken for positions that opened because of Tuesday's raid by agents of the federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency.STORY TOOLS
GREELEY - The line of applicants hoping to fill jobs vacated by undocumented workers taken away by immigration agents at the Swift & Co. meat-processing plant earlier this week was out the door Thursday.
Among them was Derrick Stegall, who carefully filled out paperwork he hoped would get him an interview and eventually land him a job as a slaughterer. Two of his friends had been taken away by Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents and he felt compelled to fill their rubber boots.
"Luckily, they had no wives or family they left behind. But it was still sad. They left their apartments filled with all their stuff. I took two dogs one of them had. The other guy had a cat I gave to my sister," he said.
Greg Bonifacio heard about the job openings on television and brought his passport, his Colorado driver's license, his Social Security card and even a color photograph of himself as a young Naval officer to prove his military service.
"I don't want to hassle with any identification problems because of my last name," said Bonifacio, a 59- year-old Thornton resident of Filipino heritage.
As it turned out, the Colorado Workforce office that was taking applications did not require any identification.
That would come later for those who made it past the interview process.
Bonifacio was hoping to get a job in production or fabrication. So was Nathan Korgan, a former construction worker whose company closed and moved to California.
"I feel bad for the kids, but good for me," said Korgan of Tuesday's raid.
Like many others who had mixed emotions about the raid, Maxine Hernandez said she was upset that families were torn apart, but believes illegal immigrants should not get work using fake documents.
"I guess I'm in the middle," she said. "But I do think they should have planned (the raid) better so that innocent children wouldn't be left behind."
Hernandez, who had gone to the employment office because her husband was there to apply for unemployment insurance, decided to apply for a job at Swift on a whim.
"My whole family used to work there. My mom, my aunt, uncles," she said. "I guess it sort of runs in our blood."
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/loca...5215724,00.html
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