Protesters Found in Database
ACLU Is Questioning Entries in Defense Dept. System

By Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, January 17, 2007; A08

A Defense Department database devoted to gathering information on potential threats to military facilities and personnel, known as Talon, had 13,000 entries as of a year ago -- including 2,821 reports involving American citizens, according to an internal Pentagon memo to be released today by the American Civil Liberties Union.

The Pentagon memo says an examination of the system led to the deletion of 1,131 reports involving Americans, 186 of which dealt with "anti-military protests or demonstrations in the U.S."

Titled "Review of the TALON Reporting System," the four-page memo produced in February 2006 summarizes some interim results from an inquiry ordered by then-Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld after disclosure in December 2005 that the system had collected and circulated data on anti-military protests and other peaceful demonstrations.

The released memo, one of a series of Talon documents made public over the past year by the ACLU under a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit, said that the deleted reports did not meet a 2003 Defense Department requirement that they have some foreign terrorist connection or relate to what was believed to be "a force protection threat."

The number of deleted reports far exceeds the estimate provided to The Washington Post just over a year ago by senior officials of Counterintelligence Field Activity (CIFA), the Defense Department agency that manages the Talon program. At that time, then-CIFA Director David A. Burtt II said the review had disclosed that only 1 percent of the then 12,500 Talon reports appeared to be problematic.

The ACLU said in its own report that past disclosures about Talon "cried out for congressional oversight yet Congress was silent." It said the new memo indicated there "may be even more disturbing" information to discover and declared "it is time for Congress to act."

The ACLU noted the memo showed that Talon reports had a much wider circulation than previously disclosed, with about 28 organizations and 3,589 individuals authorized to submit reports or have access to the database. The organizations with access include various military agencies as well as state, federal and local law enforcement officials.

In early 2006, Burtt also said CIFA had not devised a formal way to notify its users when it decided to delete a Talon report on American citizens. The newly released memo says that a software enhancement was being initiated to permit users to edit and delete entries from the database and that it was scheduled for completion in April 2006.

A Pentagon spokesman said there are 7,700 reports in the Talon database. Some involve U.S. citizens, but the spokesman declined to say how many. Over the past year the program has instituted multiple layers of review for screening which reports should go into the database, the spokesman said.

CIFA has begun a process for analysts to review materials to make sure they fit the program's criteria before being uploaded and made available to Talon users. CIFA was established in 2002 in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, originally to coordinate the counterterrorism and counterintelligence operations of the various branches and agencies of the Defense Department. It has grown rapidly over the past four years, but not without problems. Along with discovery of the Talon data collection, CIFA was linked to the lobbying and earmarking activities that led to the conviction of former congressman Randy "Duke" Cunningham (R-Calif.). Burtt and his top deputy retired in August 2006, and federal investigators are still looking at CIFA contracting activities.

Last week, the New York Times disclosed that CIFA had been using national security letters to gather financial data on U.S. citizens, but a Pentagon spokesman said yesterday that such information was for particular investigations and not made part of the Talon database.

Talon was started in May 2003 to capture raw, non-validated information about suspicious activity or potential terrorist threats to military personnel or facilities at home and abroad.

I can't say I don't blame them.

During the Vietnam conflict we had militant groups raiding National Guard Armories stealing military grade weapondry to use in an insurrection they hoped would happen. Considering the antiwar movement is practicing many of the same disinformation programs for Iraq which suceeded in scuttling the effort in Vietnam I would tend to believe one should be watchful that history might repeat it's self.

Are you displeased we are no longer in Vietnam? Are you mad the effort was scuttled?
History has repeated it’s self, Vietnam was a war without a political solution or a justifiable goal, just as Iraq is a war without goals or real solutions of any kind. Good Americans died in both wars for what?
Iraq is history reminding you we were wrong in Vietnam, just like we are wrong again in Iraq, and for the same reasons. In an effort to hold down the size of the Iraqi Vets Wall, we need to bring the military home now, and let God and Allah figure it out.
After “Kent State”, the protesters were right to arm themselves better.

Well Vaughn, the folks they caught breaking into the armouries resembled more closely Charles Manson than they did any college students.

I guess you could say I'm mad about a few things, I'm mad that because the communists won in Vietnam over two million SE Asians died in the killing field of Cambodia. I'm mad the USA double crossed a bunch of Vietamese who believed what we told them.

But mostly I'm mad that the Vietnam War could a ended sometime in 1969 or 1970 but was prolonged another 5 to 6 years and cost the lives of about another 30,000 American boys. You see, I believe what multiple sources have said about the aftermath of the TET offensive, the communist were beat and ready to negotiate a settlement. I believe what a communist said when he said the anti war movement in America was an essential element of the communist strategy to sustain their war effort.

So far the anti war movement encouraging people in killing more American boys is the only thing similar between Iraq and Vietnam Vaughn.

Your wisdom is failing you if you think American war protesters have anything at all to do with the number of men and women getting killed for bushism gunny. You make it sound like the Muslim idiots breathing death are doing so in response to American protesters and like they wouldn’t have an agenda without our protesting this immoral war.
By golly marine I think your starting to figured it out. We did double cross the Vietnamese, shouldn’t be much of a surprise though, we double-crossed the Native Americans, and we’ve been double-crossing folks ever since.
Like Iraq, the Vietnam war should never have started, also like Iraq, it ran for way too many years. It is good to see you putting it all together gunny. Vietnam in 1969 or 1970 describes 2006 in Iraq as well. Wasting good Americans is the rub gunny, Nam or Iraq, there is nothing to be gained for the people of the United States by continuing the conflict.
You can look at Vietnam today, peaceful. And you can look forward to a few years after we bail on Iraq, it will be something similar, once they conclude the civil war we instigated.
To correlate Cambodia and Vietnam is way off the mark, Cambodia was much more like Iraq, sorry leaders who cared about nothing but their own wellbeing. Once Vietnam was rid of us and our influence, they began a track that today still holds them in harmony. Cambodia still has a long way to go before they discontinue abusing their own people and find peace.
You disbelieve what we told the Vietnamese, yet we are saying the same thing all over the world gunny, this hasn’t changed. It’s the same crap we told the American Indians, you know, throw down your guns and we’ll fix everything, next thing you’ll see will be paradise everywhere.
I must disagree with your idea that the anti war movement is responsible for any deaths. Had the anti war movement not been doing their jobs, we could still be dieing in SE Asia. Now it time to protest the Iraq war, and for the same reasons it was valid to protest the war in Vietnam, the goals are not worth the lives of any Americans.
The war in Afghanistan is valid and just in my opinion, yet we are diverted away from dealing with it properly. Afghanistan should be the base from which we reach out and touch the trouble spots around the region.
Comparing anyone to Manson is wrong gunny, unless you think there is a substantial number of mental cases on the loose in America. Also, after Kent State, it made sense for protesters to consider their safety, especially since one wouldn’t know when the Guard would lock and load live ammo. Don’t you believe protesting is as American as anything else? My Grandma on dads side told me many tails of protesting WW1, sounded like a party atmosphere more than anything.

sir, you are entitled to your opinion, but supporting illegal activities by the government is silly at best and it is unAmerican at worst. since I do not think you are the latter...

if history repeats itself we will have government instilling for a few generations a level of distrust that is unhealthy for a functioning democracy.

protest is not a crime it is a duty, even when I disagree with the potesters I would fight to preserve their rights as I am sure you would.

so why this support for illegal activities?

So can you site a statute, law or other authoritative source saying if an individual may or possibly be engaged in an illegal activity the police are required to ignore it and look the other way. By the way Democratic Underground isn't an authoritative source.

DU and i were on speaking terms for all of three posts. They ban with the speed of sound.

Police? I read about the DOD. We have a nation that does not allow the military to police it's citizenry. that is the principle behind much of the protest to the patriot act.

police may monitor protesters for security and safety purposes, but even they are not allowed to spy on the citizenry without just cause vetted by the process the very same citizenry proscribes.

it is us who get to say what the government may and may not do.

You still seem to be missing the point Vaughn.

After Tet Ho Chi Mihn said they were at the end of their tether(or rope depending upon the person translating). General Giap said after being defeated in the Tet offensive they were ready to negotiate a settlement. Giap said he could not believe what he was hearing when Cronkite announce the communists had won a great victory at Tet on the American evening news. What part of that do you not understand Vaughn?

Same thing is going on now. It has nothing to do with George Bush, Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon, or who ever is to be our next president.

Calling protest a patriotic duty or gesture is a stretch when the end result of that protest encourages someone to kill a few more American troops so that we'll quit. I would guess you fellows have difficulty connecting this because if you did you'd see American blood on your hands.

who gets to say what the end result is? the end result is always beyond ones control. patriots protested the war in 'nam.

many veterans with medals...wounded and heroic veterans protested and you are saying they are responsible for how the enemy used their protest?

shame!

btwm, I disagree with most of the anti-Iraq protesters

It is a shame, the Army and Marines who fought in Vietnam did it with honor and integrity for a long time. Protesting the war by people in the military didn't start until folks in the service of the United States realized their country was taking a giant dump on them.

And from my experience dealing with people who served in Vietnam almost all of them are very proud of their service and if they had to do it all over again they'd still do it.

John Kerry said the same thing and got called a traitor.

Serving is honorable and so is protesting.

The people in charge and people like Henry Kissinger (who is the only American I've called a war criminal) sold American onor down the river for political gain and the reins of power.

More of the deaths in 'nam came after Kissinger and others promised us things.

the Vietnamese, who you used to make a point...were at the table and we walked away. see: the '68 election