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Noonan
It's been six months since Al-Sadr kidnapped an American soldier and George Bush left that soldier to die. Where is he?

It's been six months since George Bush called off the search for a kidnapped American soldier in Iraq. You remember the story. Bush didn't want to offend our Iraqi "friends," so Bush and the generals called off the search and left an American service member for dead, even though they had a decent idea where he was.

CNN's Jack Cafferty summed up the story last November, right after our soldier was kidnapped by them and abandoned by us:

QUOTE
Iraqi Shiites celebrated in the streets yesterday when American soldiers lifted those checkpoints around Sadr City in Baghdad.

That area had been blockaded, while U.S. and Iraqi troops looked for a kidnapped American soldier. But Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al- Maliki demanded the American checkpoints come down. And they did.

And who controls Sadr City? Muqtada al-Sadr, the commander of Iraq's most feared militia. Al-Sadr made it clear this week, if those checkpoints were not removed, his forces might retaliate. And the prime minister knows that he needs the support of al-Sadr and his militia, if he wants to successfully govern Iraq.

The American Embassy in Baghdad insists the decision to remove those checkpoints was made after a meeting between al-Maliki and top U.S. officials. And a military spokesman was adamant that U.S. soldiers removed the checkpoints on their commanders' orders.

But it doesn't really matter, does it? By removing the checkpoints, the United States is, in effect, handing over the fate of the kidnapped American soldier to the Shiite militia. This country has a long and proud tradition of never abandoning its soldiers on the battlefield. And we ought to be ashamed of ourselves for this little stunt they pulled.

The question is this. Who's calling the shots in Iraq, the United States, the Iraqi government, or the militias? It's a disgrace.
You don't hear about that American soldier at all anymore, because he's an example of everything that is wrong with this war and its leadership in the Pentagon, the White House, and the then-Republican Congress. George Bush and the Republicans, and their generals at the Pentagon, don't care about the troops unless they're props at a White House photo opp. If they're real American soldiers in the war zone, wounded American troops back in the states, or American heroes slain in battle, George Bush and the Republicans in Congress don't care about them much at all.

Take the much vaunted Republican Rep. Sam Johnson. You remember him. He's the guy who got a standing ovation from Republicans a while back when he gave a speech in the US House excoriating Democrats while saying that the only reason we lost in Vietnam is that the Congress didn't spend more money and send more troops. Yes. We would have won in Vietnam had we just stayed longer and sent even more troops. This kind of crazy talk gets a standing ovation in today's Republican party and you wonder why we're losing in Iraq? Well, I was reading a short clip about Johnson in today's Washington Post. Here's what it said is motivating him:

QUOTE
[F]or [Johnson], the Iraq debate is like a flashback. By the time Congress cut off funds for Vietnam, the war was largely over, but Johnson still languished in prison, fearing that his nation had abandoned him.

"I know what it's like to be on front lines for country when fellow countrymen don't support you," he said, vowing it will never happen again.


He's afraid that Democrats want to leave our troops behind. Okay. Well, I just did a Google on Sam Johnson and the kidnapped US soldier, Ahmed Qusai al-Taei, and here are the results: A bit fat zero (well, a link to an old story that's now gone). Yes, how many times do we find our American patriot Sam Johnson speaking out in an effort to help this poor US soldier kidnapped and left for dead in Iraq? Zero.

But Sam Johnson is an honorable man. So are they all - George Bush, Dick Cheney, the generals at the Pentagon who all too quickly caved when Bush told them to leave one of their own for dead, and the Republicans in Congress who continue to rubber stamp this disaster of a war - all honorable men.

I'll close with a quote from Johnson's standing-ovation floor speech:

QUOTE
“The pain inflicted by your country’s indifference is tenfold that inflicted by your ruthless captors."


You're right, Mr. Johnson. So where is our soldier? And why don't you seem to care?
Marine
The only kidnapping I've heard about was two American soldiers who were found within a week mutilated and beheaded.

Noonan, ask you wing-nut friends what the name of this kidnapped soldier is.
Indianhead
Excellent site SFC White...looks like the batting average for rescues is d*amned good.
Marine
Thanks for that link Top.

I would presume that Noonan's story is talking about U.S. Army Sgt. Ahmed K. Altaie kidnapped last October. Sadr's people pretty vigorously deny being the perpetrators of this kidnapping at least officially. Might be a good reason why Sadr's hiding out in Iran, eh?

Since the Army is offering a $50,000 reward to anyone who gives them the where abouts of the Sgt I would call that giving up on finding him.

The other Soldier listed as captured, Matt Maupin, I'd be really concerned about his well being considering al jazeera posted a message saying he'd been murdered.
Marine
QUOTE(Indianhead @ Apr 24 2007, 11:38 AM) *
Excellent site SFC White...looks like the batting average for rescues is d*amned good.

Too few POWs Chuck. Good sign not to surrender when the prospect of being murdered is almost assurred
Noonan
The only "wing nut friends" I have are the ones on here. You are all encouraged to go to the source sites for articles I post and ask questions or debate them here if you want to talk about them more than what we do on here.

Yes, the "batting average" for rescues of MIA is (happily) very high in this war, and the number is quite low.

BTW, if you read the article, it clearly states the captured/missing soldier's name is Ahmed Qusai al-Taei. Here's more background beyond what was posted above.
CNN
AII POW-MIA Network
SFC_White
From Pat Tillman to the 58 year old that collapsed coming off the plane in Kuwait, to the guy beside you in the HMMV, to the cook, to the radio operator, to the supply clerk, truck driver... least we not forget the fallen, nor the injured, nor the missing.... They are all heros in my eyes.

Politican's announcing defeat to the politicans cheering blindly... both are equally bad. Any descision made by politicans... is far removed from the day to day in the box.

I have no doubt that if we leave Iraq there will be countless other places that we'll be engaged regardless of who wins what ever election..

so argue on..
Marine
QUOTE(Noonan @ Apr 24 2007, 05:18 PM) *
The only "wing nut friends" I have are the ones on here. You are all encouraged to go to the source sites for articles I post and ask questions or debate them here if you want to talk about them more than what we do on here.

Yes, the "batting average" for rescues of MIA is (happily) very high in this war, and the number is quite low.

BTW, if you read the article, it clearly states the captured/missing soldier's name is Ahmed Qusai al-Taei. Here's more background beyond what was posted above.
CNN
AII POW-MIA Network

Oh, they used the Arabic form; considering the source, that makes sense.
Marine
QUOTE(SFC_White @ Apr 25 2007, 05:38 AM) *
From Pat Tillman to the 58 year old that collapsed coming off the plane in Kuwait, to the guy beside you in the HMMV, to the cook, to the radio operator, to the supply clerk, truck driver... least we not forget the fallen, nor the injured, nor the missing.... They are all heros in my eyes.

Politican's announcing defeat to the politicans cheering blindly... both are equally bad. Any descision made by politicans... is far removed from the day to day in the box.

I have no doubt that if we leave Iraq there will be countless other places that we'll be engaged regardless of who wins what ever election..

so argue on..

Everyone I talk to just wants to get the job done and get the flock out of there. Wouldn't it be nice?
SFC_White
It is what it is.

At this point all the possible solutions are sh!tty.

With all due respect to the distinguished Senator from Nevada on behalf of my compatriots in the box he can kiss my hairy a$$.
vfguenley
QUOTE(SFC_White @ Apr 25 2007, 10:46 AM) *
It is what it is.

At this point all the possible solutions are sh!tty.

With all due respect to the distinguished Senator from Nevada on behalf of my compatriots in the box he can kiss my hairy a$$.

Who fault is it that “At this point all the possible solutions are sh!tty”, Harry’s?
You might want to rethink what Harry said. If one takes the definition of winning in Iraq from the bush administration prior to the infamous “mission Accomplished” speech, we have either already accomplished what could be accomplished, and/or the remaining goals are not obtainable under the current official US strategy. From many peoples perspectives, we “have lost” if bush’s definition at that point in time is applied. In this “ol soldiers” humble opinion, our great military has followed their orders and accomplished everything that’s been asked of them and done so in a valiant manner. It’s not their fault their “president” has forced the military into such an unfortunate position, where they are finding the will of the American people to support this war waning in the face of all the potential negative scenarios they’re facing. Too many Americans are questioning the whole idea for being in Iraq in the first place, then wondering how bush can think he can turn such a negative into something positive. There is a huge debate going on throughout the nation about the validity of this war and our military is discussed as being part of the problem when in reality they are not. It wasn’t the military’s plan to have to follow the orders generated by the dynamic duo of rummy and bush, I’m sure the military would have preferred more thoughtful leadership out of their civilian boss’s.
Noonan
QUOTE(SFC_White @ Apr 25 2007, 03:55 PM) *

Touché. smile.gif
Now, since it's been brought up again, how do we "win" again?
Marine
QUOTE(Noonan @ Apr 26 2007, 06:32 AM) *
Touché. smile.gif
Now, since it's been brought up again, how do we "win" again?

It certainly won't happen with the Senate Majority leader making statements such as "the war is lost" do you think?

From way back the strategy the democratic party has pursued on the war in Iraq has been negative. The democratic party has painted it's self into a corner where if America succeeds the democrats have to accept failure.

Now you can tell me what's worst; the democrats accepting failure or America suceeding?
SFC_White
QUOTE(Noonan @ Apr 26 2007, 07:32 AM) *
Touché. smile.gif
Now, since it's been brought up again, how do we "win" again?


Well we can start by providing better oversite.

I'm optimist that Mr Gates... while he has his hands full... is not affraid to turn over some apple carts at the powerpoint factory.

Congress for its part too... just getting around to exploring the militaries handling of Pat Tillman's death...... better late then never.

Last I checked Congress is also responsible for creating legislation and passing Laws.... How but some legislation that clearly provides for how we handle this enemies of state... the ones that are still in Guantanimo and are for every a thorn in America's Justice system.

I would hope to that General Petraus was held accountable behind closed doors for progress or lack of progress on the ground.

That the State Department is being held accountable to interact with Syria, Iran, Suadi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan and Turkey in working on issues that will have positive impact on the region and Iraq.

I obviously do not beleive that a date for withdrawal will be of any benefit to the U.S.

And to speak the words "Defeat" while one soldier remains in Iraq is something that I will challenge vigorously.
vfguenley
QUOTE(SFC_White @ Apr 25 2007, 02:55 PM) *


Bush lied, people died, and continue to die at an unacceptable rate.
I’ll give credit where credit is due; the brainwashing of America was almost complete when the populous started to remember the truth and how important the facts are to the future of our democracy. Fear may have been predominant for a period after 9/11, replacing fear with fact is what will drive us back to intelligent decision making, whether you and the others join in is up to you and whether or not you have learned to see the difference between the facts and the right wing fiction.
What would the outcome be if this vote was taken today?
vfguenley
QUOTE(SFC_White @ Apr 26 2007, 08:29 AM) *
Well we can start by providing better oversite.

I'm optimist that Mr Gates... while he has his hands full... is not affraid to turn over some apple carts at the powerpoint factory.

Congress for its part too... just getting around to exploring the militaries handling of Pat Tillman's death...... better late then never.

Last I checked Congress is also responsible for creating legislation and passing Laws.... How but some legislation that clearly provides for how we handle this enemies of state... the ones that are still in Guantanimo and are for every a thorn in America's Justice system.

I would hope to that General Petraus was held accountable behind closed doors for progress or lack of progress on the ground.

That the State Department is being held accountable to interact with Syria, Iran, Suadi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan and Turkey in working on issues that will have positive impact on the region and Iraq.

I obviously do not beleive that a date for withdrawal will be of any benefit to the U.S.

And to speak the words "Defeat" while one soldier remains in Iraq is something that I will challenge vigorously.

If this is the recipe for winning, we are in a world of crap.
Oversight is always good, if anyone is paying attention to what positive outcome there may be. This administration is deaf, dumb, blind and not paying any attention to the facts.
Gates is an improvement over rummy, but he is still a bush “lackey”.
So long as bush is in charge, we will get bush results.
Withdrawal can’t happen without a plan, a plan requires a date, exclusive of a date certain any plan is without end, a never ending plan is not what the congress voted for.
Our military is doing a great job following orders, but if the orders being followed lead to defeat, ( and they have), what should the military do about it? The orders come from bush, bush is an idiot, what are the odds this idiot is going to somehow develop new orders that change the entire dynamic?
vfguenley
QUOTE(Noonan @ Apr 26 2007, 05:32 AM) *
Touché. smile.gif
Now, since it's been brought up again, how do we "win" again?

Impeach cheney first, then bush.
Then declare a win and come home, it is as simple as that.
Marine
QUOTE(vfguenley @ Apr 26 2007, 11:41 AM) *
Bush lied, people died, and continue to die at an unacceptable rate.
I’ll give credit where credit is due; the brainwashing of America was almost complete when the populous started to remember the truth and how important the facts are to the future of our democracy. Fear may have been predominant for a period after 9/11, replacing fear with fact is what will drive us back to intelligent decision making, whether you and the others join in is up to you and whether or not you have learned to see the difference between the facts and the right wing fiction.
What would the outcome be if this vote was taken today?

Fill us in Vaughn, what did Bush lie about?
Marine
QUOTE(vfguenley @ Apr 26 2007, 12:30 PM) *
Impeach cheney first, then bush.
Then declare a win and come home, it is as simple as that.

Impeach them for what? Being able to beat the best the democrats can field in two elections?
vfguenley
QUOTE(Marine @ Apr 27 2007, 07:23 AM) *
Impeach them for what? Being able to beat the best the democrats can field in two elections?



http://waldo.villagesoup.com/opinion/story.cfm?storyID=91394

Impeachment is the only option left to end this debacle, and the madness that is gripping Congress. It's time for the people to lead, to reclaim our Constitution and restore a government of, by and for the people. We must believe that "if the people lead, the leaders will follow."
This Saturday, April 28, is National Impeachment Day. The power to impeach was one of the first proposals presented to the Constitutional Convention in 1787. The founders believed our government needed a strong executive, but having just thrown off the rule of a king, they wanted to thwart imperial power. They gave us impeachment as a process by which the Legislature can indict, bring to trial and remove elected officials, based on conviction on charges of treason, bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors.
Nineteen states, including Maine, have grassroots movements engaged in demanding Congress to stand up and put impeachment back on the table. Without the support of either political party or any central sponsorship, hundreds of volunteer hours have been spent by scores of dedicated Mainers from all walks of life to make impeachment happen.
The Maine Campaign to Impeach (MaineImpeach.org) is closing in on its goal of collecting 10,000 signatures on a petition demanding that both the Maine Legislature and our congressional representatives endorse a resolution to impeach Bush and Cheney.
It only takes one member of the House to introduce articles of impeachment and begin the investigations. More than 7,000 people have signed on already, either by signing the petition on the website or by on-the-street petition gathering efforts. By signing the petition, then printing copies of it (printable from the website) and getting more signatures, all Mainers can help reach that goal. It is hoped that 10,000 signatures will be collected by mid-May.


http://www.niagarafallsreporter.com/editorial287.html

The Vermont State Senate passed a resolution last week calling on the House of Representatives to launch formal impeachment proceedings against President George Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney. It is an idea whose time has come.


Bill Gallagher, the Reporter's national correspondent, has argued repeatedly and convincingly that Bush and Cheney lied to the American people about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, the role of the White House in revealing the identity of covert CIA agent Valerie Plame, the circumstances surrounding the friendly-fire death of star football player Pat Tillman in Afghanistan and any number of other matters of life and death.
Just last week, on the very day that Bush told an audience of enthusiastic supporters that withdrawal from Iraq would lead to more bloodshed and chaos, the Department of Defense reported that four American servicemen had been killed there. That, along with more than 100 Iraqi civilians reported by the various news agencies.
He is living in a fantasy world that has caused many observers to wonder if, in fact, he is mentally ill.
Of course, the same right-wing toadies who hounded President Bill Clinton to impeachment over lies about a sexual escapade now say that the lies of Bush and Cheney fail to meet that level of egregiousness.
Black is white and up is down if lying about consensual sex can somehow be considered worse than the lies that have led to the slaughter of more than 3,300 brave American soldiers over the past four years.
Newspapers and television news outlets numb their customers' minds with endless coverage of the death of some drug-addled show-business non-entity like Anna Nicole Smith, the firing of a hack disc jockey or the madness of a screwed-up Virginia college student who killed 32 people.
As of Saturday morning, 65 Americans had been killed in Iraq this month alone. Why isn't Katie Couric running montages of their photos on her newscast? They were about the same age as the Virginia Tech students, with many of the same hopes and dreams and families left to grieve. Could it be because the man responsible for those killings isn't some South Korean madman with a grudge against the world -- but is, instead, the president of the United States?


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/E...how/1936513.cms

MONTPELIER: Vermont state senators voted to call for the impeachment of president George Bush and vice president Dick Cheney, saying their actions in Iraq and the US "raise serious questions of constitutionality".

The non-binding resolution in this northeastern state was approved 16-9 on Friday without debate, all six Republicans in the chamber at the time and three Democrats voted against it.

The resolution was the latest symbolic effort in the state to impeach Bush. In March, 40 towns in the state known for its liberal leaning voted in favour of similar, non-binding resolutions at their annual meetings. State lawmakers in Wisconsin and Washington have also pushed for similar resolutions.

The Vermont Senate is believed to be the first state chamber in the country to pass such a resolution, said Bill Wyatt, a spokesman for the National Conference of State Legislatures.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070507/nichols

Outside Washington, however, an "impeachment from below" movement is gathering steam. The President's troop surge into Iraq and his refusal to consider exit strategies has caused many to react like GOP Senator Chuck Hagel, who has observed, "The President says...he's not accountable anymore, which isn't totally true. You can impeach him." Hagel's remarks go to the heart of the surge in interest in impeachment: It stems from Bush's ongoing disregard for the demands of the electorate, the Congress and the Constitution. Legitimate impeachment initiatives are organic responses to the realities of a moment rather than purely legal procedures. Talk of impeachment gains traction when it becomes clear that an Administration is unwilling to respect the system of checks and balances or the rule of law. This explains why the allegation that Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, apparently with White House approval, pressured US Attorneys to politicize prosecutions has added so much fuel to the fire, with activists like Vermont's Dan DeWalt now saying, "I don't have any trouble getting people to agree that impeachment is necessary."

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_al...ns_to_impea.htm

1. Violating the United Nations Charter by launching an illegal "War of Aggression" against Iraq without cause, using fraud to sell the war to Congress and the public, misusing government funds to begin bombing without Congressional authorization, and subjecting our military personnel to unnecessary harm, debilitating injuries, and deaths.
2. Violating U.S. and international law by authorizing the torture of thousands of captives, resulting in dozens of deaths, and keeping prisoners hidden from the International Committee of the Red Cross.
3. Violating the Constitution by arbitrarily detaining Americans, legal residents, and non-Americans, without due process, without charge, and without access to counsel.
4. Violating the Geneva Conventions by targeting civilians, journalists, hospitals, and ambulances, and using illegal weapons, including white phosphorous, depleted uranium, and a new type of napalm.
5. Violating U.S. law and the Constitution through widespread wiretapping of the phone calls and emails of Americans without a warrant.
6. Violating the Constitution by using "signing statements" to defy hundreds of laws passed by Congress.
7. Violating U.S. and state law by obstructing honest elections in 2000, 2002, 2004, and 2006.
8. Violating U.S. law by using paid propaganda and disinformation, selectively and misleadingly leaking classified information, and exposing the identity of a covert CIA operative working on sensitive WMD proliferation for political retribution.
9. Subverting the Constitution and abusing Presidential power by asserting a "Unitary Executive Theory" giving unlimited powers to the President, by obstructing efforts by Congress and the Courts to review and restrict Presidential actions, and by promoting and signing legislation negating the Bill of Rights and the Writ of Habeas Corpus.
10. Gross negligence in failing to assist New Orleans residents after Hurricane Katrina, in ignoring urgent warnings of an Al Qaeda attack prior to Sept. 11, 2001, and in increasing air pollution causing global warming.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/

http://technocrat.net/d/2007/4/25/18790
Marine
I guess that's a true statement Vaughn. Impeachment is the only option left when the democrats can't seem to field a candidate capable of beating what y'all describe to be the village idiot. What's that have to say about the democrat's candidayes though?
vfguenley
QUOTE(Marine @ Apr 27 2007, 10:25 AM) *
I guess that's a true statement Vaughn. Impeachment is the only option left when the democrats can't seem to field a candidate capable of beating what y'all describe to be the village idiot. What's that have to say about the democrat's candidayes though?

What it says to me is that many of the people who are smart enough to run our nation are not interested in the job. Can’t say that I blame them, the job doesn’t pay well, the hours are terrible and the stress can be overwhelming.
Out of the current bunch running from both sides, there might be two who have the brains and the patience to do well. Any of the rest of the pack would just be a continuation of the mindlessness we’ve been living with the past six years.
Marine
QUOTE(vfguenley @ Apr 27 2007, 11:37 AM) *
What it says to me is that many of the people who are smart enough to run our nation are not interested in the job. Can’t say that I blame them, the job doesn’t pay well, the hours are terrible and the stress can be overwhelming.
Out of the current bunch running from both sides, there might be two who have the brains and the patience to do well. Any of the rest of the pack would just be a continuation of the mindlessness we’ve been living with the past six years.

What did you think of the debates Vaughn?

Bill Richardson came across a bit flat and not as articulate as I'd hoped, it was a great disappointment.

I'm reconsidering Barrack Obama though. I didn't think he had the experience needed but he this debate sort of changed my mind.
vfguenley
QUOTE(Marine @ Apr 27 2007, 10:51 AM) *
What did you think of the debates Vaughn?

Bill Richardson came across a bit flat and not as articulate as I'd hoped, it was a great disappointment.

I'm reconsidering Barrack Obama though. I didn't think he had the experience needed but he this debate sort of changed my mind.

Considering the fact that this presidential campaign was started too early, I believe what I watched was a series of continuous sound bites. There were three, maybe four candidates whom I believe would be a good president, but not because of their presence in the debate. With eight candidates it’s impossible to dispatch any kind of a serious message; most folks will pick a candidate because of their looks and a few sound bites. It will be worse with 10 republicans. Many of us will see these candidates several more times over the next few months, by then we hopefully will have weeded out the weaker candidates allowing the rest enough time to shape their message. I am a New Mexican and I will support our favorite son, Mr. Bill Richardson, as long as possible, despite the fact that it’s not looking so good at the moment.
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