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grammydidi
QUOTE
Jul 24, 2007 11:04 pm US/Eastern

Army's 'Debt Of Service' Leaves Vets Perplexed
Unbelievably, Soldiers Must Pay For Damaged Equipment


Kirstin Cole
Reporting

(CBS) NEW YORK Servicemen and women who made huge sacrifices fighting in the war and now paying yet another price, even after coming home.

One soldier in particular is currently battling against a new "debt of service."

Brian Rodriguez is a fighter, an honorably discharged soldier who'd been deployed in Iraq.

"I was a combat engineer," Rodriguez said. "We deal with land mines, explosives."

He fought for his nation, only to return to his homeland and wage a fresh battle.

Former Army Specialist Rodriguez started getting bills for $700 for lost or damaged government property this summer. Although he was discharged some four years ago, bills recently arrived demanding payment, but giving no details on what or why -- nor do they offer a way to dispute the charges.

"For doing my job you're going to bill me?" Rodriguez said.

And he's not alone. A 2006 government report found more than 1,000 soldiers being billed a total of $1.5 million. And while fighting overseas put their lives on the line, this battle on paper could cost them their future by ruining their credit. Rodriguez will be reported to credit agencies next month.

"It makes a terrible point about the nature of military service today," citizen soldier Tod Ensign said.

Ensign is a veteran's advocate. He says this is all part of the military’s push to be run more like a business.

"They'll just pound him and call him, call his employers, and make his life as miserable as they can until he pays up," Ensign said.

Testimony before Congress detailed in a report found that "although unit commanders and finance offices are authorized to write off debts for lost and damaged equipment ... they have not always done so."

"It happens too often and it's just disgraceful," Sen. Charles Schumer said. "Here are people who are risking their lives for us and they come home and they're being treated as if they're criminals instead of heroes."

Because it's been four years since he left the Middle East, Rodriguez's battalion was dissolved and his commanders are long gone. And despite repeated requests, the Army never could tell us what piece of equipment Rodriguez was billed for, nor would they get rid of the debt.

"I did my time, I served my country and this is the thanks I get," Rodriguez said.

Their suggestion? Call your Congressman. Schumer said he'll reach out to the Army to intervene on Brian's behalf.
Marine
When I was a LCpl I got to pay for a radio.

Instead a securing where it was suspose to go I locked it up in my car. Left it sitting in plain view on the back seat.

I wasn't making but $124 a month and every payday for 6 months $50 came right off the top. Pretty rough leaving a fellow with just $74 a month when I had a $66 a month car payment.

Taught me to be real careful when it came to government property entrusted to my care too.
grammydidi
QUOTE(Marine @ Jul 29 2007, 02:31 PM) *
When I was a LCpl I got to pay for a radio.

Instead a securing where it was suspose to go I locked it up in my car. Left it sitting in plain view on the back seat.

I wasn't making but $124 a month and every payday for 6 months $50 came right off the top. Pretty rough leaving a fellow with just $74 a month when I had a $66 a month car payment.

Taught me to be real careful when it came to government property entrusted to my care too.



But at least you knew what it was you were paying for. This poor guy doesn't even know that. And after four years, they start dunning him. They should be held to some time limit statute. If they can't get their crap together before that, it just needs to be written off. Let them put their wolves on the $9 Billion in cash that's missing in Iraq.
Marine
QUOTE(grammydidi @ Jul 29 2007, 02:43 PM) *
But at least you knew what it was you were paying for. This poor guy doesn't even know that. And after four years, they start dunning him. They should be held to some time limit statute. If they can't get their crap together before that, it just needs to be written off. Let them put their wolves on the $9 Billion in cash that's missing in Iraq.

Actually when you move from one unit to another or get out of the military you go through a process, or you're suspose to go through the process, a checking your government issued gear in. About the only time I've seen this process by-passed is when someone is evaced as a casualty. I guess Army Quartermasters are bit more lax than Marine supply Sergeants.

When government property disappears the last person who signed for it gets held accountable. If you don't think missing gear is a problem go on ebay and do a couple a queries.
grammydidi
QUOTE(Marine @ Jul 29 2007, 06:18 PM) *
Actually when you move from one unit to another or get out of the military you go through a process, or you're suspose to go through the process, a checking your government issued gear in. About the only time I've seen this process by-passed is when someone is evaced as a casualty. I guess Army Quartermasters are bit more lax than Marine supply Sergeants.

When government property disappears the last person who signed for it gets held accountable. If you don't think missing gear is a problem go on ebay and do a couple a queries.



I can understand the paperwork problems involved and how mistakes can easily be made. And also the thefts that take place. But if the Army won't even tell this guy what he's supposed to have run off with, why should he pay for it? Maybe it's a backpack, a pair of boots and a canteen. The price of $700 wouldn't surprise me, especially so long after the fact.
cutecat
Mash ( TV show) did an episode in the 70's on this during the Korean War.

I would like to know who pays the reserves for equipment they were forced to leave,
Marine
QUOTE(grammydidi @ Jul 29 2007, 07:31 PM) *
I can understand the paperwork problems involved and how mistakes can easily be made. And also the thefts that take place. But if the Army won't even tell this guy what he's supposed to have run off with, why should he pay for it? Maybe it's a backpack, a pair of boots and a canteen. The price of $700 wouldn't surprise me, especially so long after the fact.

Probably an interceptor vest for that kind a price. I see them all the time on ebay. It's been that way for as long as armies have existed, lost equipment is an avoidable cost most times.

A lot of 20 year olds are irresponsible, it just took me one time to learn to appreciate that government property belongs to the people.
flydangler
QUOTE(Marine @ Jul 30 2007, 08:16 AM) *
A lot of 20 year olds are irresponsible, it just took me one time to learn to appreciate that government property belongs to the people
'Tain't always youngsters that come up missin' stuff when they check out, eh?

Methinks you'll 'member them rubber ladies everyone got, but never used. Consequently we all tended to tuck 'em away someplace safe so's we could dig it out for a "junk on the bunk", but I'll be danged if I can recall a single time I checked out when I could find mine when turnin' in my deuce gear.
Indianhead
Most of the stuff GIs bring back could be dumped
on a psychiatrists couch...if they had that benefit.

I was wonderin' recently how Robert Mueller, FBI
Chief, had the cajones to take on his boss - Alberto Gonzales.

So I checked, and learned, that boldness was also GI issued...

Mueller was born in New York City, New York to Alice C. Truesdale and Robert Swan Mueller.[1] He grew up outside of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. A 1962 graduate of St. Paul's School, he went on to graduate from Princeton University in 1966, earned a master's degree in international relations at New York University in 1967, and obtained his law degree from the University of Virginia School of Law. He then joined the United States Marine Corps, where he served as an officer for three years, leading a rifle platoon of the 3rd Marine Division in the Vietnam War. He is the recipient of the Bronze Star, two Navy Commendation Medals, the Purple Heart and the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry.

A peculiar fraturnity...

But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day
.

-Henry V- Shakespear

Thank God there are combat vets among the bureaucrats.
Some know that their code, their oath, is to The Constitution.

Maybe that's why I still believe in, still pray for, the United States.
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