...stop making it the issue. Racism and sexism are issues, just not the main issue.

All issues stem from economics and class warfare. Fix these problems and race/sex issues will disappear.

Way to end racism? Make everyone intermarry, date others, and I know Bill loves when I quote movies so-

have what happened in Day of the Triffods- where everyone goes blind. (or what else is it that makes everyone go blind?...)

That way one doesn't know who the other person is...

Get rid of religion and all war would end. As John Lennon once thought of in a dreamy song...Imagine that...

Getting rid of religion would not end wars. Religion is only the white square bishop in a game of class warfare.

Politics is the black square bishop, the bishop of atheists.

Probably if you arrest and permanently lock up less than 1000 people, the world would be perfect

(It has to be the correct 1000 people of course).

Perfect is relative. To those at the top of the class warfare food chain, the world is currently perfect.

That is the same less than 1000 people.

If you got rid of the 1000 most powerful people at the top of the class war food chain, you would have 1000 more people taking their place resuming the class war.

Which is why one should tell this to Marine (who wants to eradicate every Muslim in the world)...it would not change anything

However, if everyone had a close family member of the group they hate, soon love would reign

Interesting. This thread illustrates the major fallacy driving our civilization. Some persons think that everything can be explained in terms of Religion and some persons think everything can be sxplained in Economic terms. Neither are correct.

class warfare?

not class enemies, i hope?

sounds too "end up like cuba".... hmph..

This is so smart!

Those who use class warfare tactics make themselves class enemies.

If religion could be somehow incorruptible or infallible, then one could explain everything in terms of religion. But since religion is mere philosophy from corruptible or fallible minds, it is open to and often used as a tool to motivate and trick the spiritually weak into fulfilling a hidden materialistic class warfare agenda, even against their own class at times.

One thing is certain, repudiate the Bush family and all their tentacles, and the world is six million times better

Because they are really just aliens from another planet here to destroy ours?

What makes you think there is no group just as destructive as the Bush family waiting to take their place?

One could just as accurately make the same statement about Economics.

your own signature says it all
"Perception is everything. Everything is relative. Reality is what we make it."

Everything bad is a relative of the Bushfamily.
There is NO other reality.

Economics are a little less philosophical than religion. Economics are scientific and mathematical. Socioeconomics are somewhere in between.

Its not the dollar/euro that is bad.
It's that the Bushfamily owns the dollars/euros and who makes it that is bad

Blaming the dollar is blaming the messenger

I see socioeconomics as a step toward social systems analysis. General Systems Theory
integrates all the sciences. The relations between and among entities are more important
than the essence of the entities. The way to decrease racism and sexism is to increase
humanism.

Graham, it must be hard feeling like you are less than a pawn every day, like you have no influence over the outcome of the game whatsoever. You watch too many '50s Western style movies with the unrealistically clear contrast between heros an villains.

There's a hero in every villain, and a villain in every hero. The challenge for humanity is to keep the inner villains in check. But you can't see that because you're blinded by your own hatefulness. You're just as hateful as the people you hate, and just as vulnerable of becoming them under the same circumstances.

True to the extent that humanitarianism doesn't threaten the power structure of the powerful. Once it does, they divide an conquer for the sake of maintaining power. Class warfare happens because the powerful are more concerned with maintaining power than how best to use that power. Race and sex are their most convenient ways to divide, even when they know there's no significant differences between the sides they play against each other. Color is the only difference between opposing pawns on the chess board.


Humanitarianism alone will not end the class war. We have to somehow develop immunity to the divide an conquer game. In addition to never compromising our humanitarian standards, we should demand transparency in government and never trade freedom for security.

"Immunity = Life Skills Training in:Self Management, Relationship Management, Home Management,
Value Clarification & Life Planing, Career Development, Citizenship and Spirituality. (As a side note):
Chess is no doubt a highly developed cognivive schema for those who play it. It's pretty useless for those who don't.)

Bill, in previous discussions, I seem to remember you disavowing a Reductionist philosophy
in favor of a holistic one. This formulation seems very reductionistic to me. Experts in the philosophy of knowledge seem, to me, to be comming to a consensus that the only way to settle this
conflict is to create a philosophy of knowing that includes and integrates both. This is what General System's language purports to do, through the use of the basic concepts of Structure and Process--
the relations between and among entities.

It's not reductionist if it targets the larger entity that contains the smaller. It's like aiming for the hull of the ship rather than aiming for just the guns shooting back at you.

Hmmmm.....interesting.

1.Stop appointing judges who writings were known to be racist commentary to federal benches.
2. Acknowledge that sexism, racism,religion and people preferences are used by rich and poor, right and left, up and down to excuse, blame or elevate themselves on their own petards.
3. Acknowledge that # 2 exist and that it has held back, denied and deprived let alone manipulate chosen groups of people.
4. Acknowledging that labeling people places or behaviors promotes or depletes the characters of groups.
5. Acknowledge that historically men have been the benefactors of most of the control and manipulated behavior of the masses.
6.) Acknowledge that the smallest group of beneficiaries of this behavior are wealthy and the largest group are poor.
7. Admit that we have all given into a stereotype in our life time( drinking green beer on st paddy's day is a negative stereotype of the drunken Irish.)( as an older person do you tense at large group of youth on the corner.).

The big solution is in one voice admit it exist, acknowledge you may have participated and spend every minute of everyday meeting and greeting and reaching out and learning something new about someone every minute of every day.

VOTE YOUR HEART USING ALL THE COMMON SENSE YOU WERE BORN WITH......

Call me a cockeyed optimist... I still believe in the fundamental goodness of human kind... that we all are family and that there are just a few bad apples to deal with... we citizens must learn to work together in a democratic way to enforce checks and balances of our lesser selves and to find ways of solving our differences without war... more so now than ever... as it seems to be a death wish of extremists and fanatics to yammer about fantasies of something someone said once in a dream or nightmare. Maybe it's human nature to destroy ourselves... I don't know... I don't think I want to know if that is the case... I will hold out for something noble and sublime to happen... that we learn to fight no more war forever... because for me, the alternative is too horrible to comprehend.

But it does exist

And there are 2 distinct systems

See it every day up in NY NJ area
See it in the courts every single day too

You just have to look at who is pulled over for speeding, if 2 cars are going over the limit, the one pulled over is always a black person if both cars have one black driver, one white driver
Without fail

And I disagree with #2 because education is unequal and sometimes help is needed

Which is why I so disagree with a hypocrite like Clarence Thomas railing both against the system, but having used the system to get where he is, then not wanting others to have his opportunity.

During Katrina people in the convention center and stadium were treated like dirt. And not one person was allowed to step foot on the bridge, even if no one now takes the blame or responsibility for putting the gun in the persons faces.

The Bad $hit follows the Lack of Opportunity forced migration to less desirable places,
down stream and down wind...in the day-to-day Operations of the Social System...through Time
and across space...when Communities are not Integrated, they are not real Communities, when
Families are not Integrated, they are not real Families and when Persons are not Integrated, they
are not real, not totally, Self-actualizing Persons...(A Goal to be pursued, not a Weapon to beat
someone over the head with...like some of the Faith Based interventions...). We need to re-configure
our Social System ...To a person-centered system where the Authority of Government is based on
the Individually Aggregated Power of each and every Person who holds Citizenship and our registered and not-registered Guests...This is what the Constitution prescribes...It is being blocked
by those who control the Tyranny of the Middle...

You weren't anywhere near New Orleans before, during, or after Katrina. By your own standards, you don't really know what happened since you weren't actually in the Superdome or Convention Center.

How much does continuous TV & Internet coverage count? 2/3, 3/4?...

The way I see it is that there are 2 ways to end racism and sexism:

1. Education for everyone stressing the similarities among all of us, and not the differences. We need to appreciate the billions of variations of God's creatures and accept each and everyone as a potential friend and good neighbor rather than an enemy.

2. Make the Golden Rule the primary law of every country on earth.

Sexism and Racism arise from deep Ignorance, and further fueled by Want. Ignorance and Want the two great enemies of Mankind. I believe a true knowledge of Reincarnation in all societies would quickly erase them both.


Further IMO. Love is the first and last "law of existence" The Alpha and Omega. But if for whatever reasons we don't understand what is meant by Love and that there is where we should always live, we encounter the second law "Karma". Then we travel through many corridors, many lives, and live out many dramas as Karma teaches us that All Lessons are always about love and then we come home again and recognize it for the first time.

There are an infinite number of ways Development can go astray and relative few ways it can go
right...Recognizing our common needs and making provision for them Individually and collectively,
allows the emergent evolution and Improvment of the Human Race, of which we are all potentially,
an integrated part. We are all in this together and the full success of the whole depends upon the success of all the parts...Individual Connectivity boost the survival and thrival of the whole.

Why do you defend the undefendable?

Sometimes I have no reason to understand why you wanted John Kerry so badly to be President? Being that he was one of the 10 biggest liberals in the Senate...

Why do you defend the undefensable? What's so hard to look at the truth and agree with it?

What are you accusing her of trying to defend on this thread?

Your response has absolutely nothing to do with hers or this thread. She made a valid point which you seem to have no response to. If you don't have anything relevant to say, don't try to steer the thread off topic because nobody is buying it.

wrong- she is just following me from thread to thread based on a point I correctly called that she was not in the convention center or the stadium while the horrors happened, as were those blacks that were left to die or be tossed 1000s of miles away
Her post has no belonging on this thread

Face the truth- until everyone admits there is racism and sexism and people in power are trying to keep people hating instead of loving, then nothing will ever change

Love is a Verb and Karma is the unfortunate blow-back from mis-directed Love...Tough
($hit) Love...We continually do this at a Personal Level...and here lately, on a National
and International Level...always being plugged into the World Wide Psychodrama of
Life...getting home late and leaving early, Investing more in the Community and getting
less in support for achieving my Goals & my Family's Goals... My Neighbors are having the same Struggle that I am...How Do We Turn This Train Arround?

Clarence Thomas was a bad judicial appointment. Thurgood Marshall rolled in his grave!

Anyone with half a brain knows that there is racism, including the racist. But there are some people that will never admit it, and don't need to. This thread is not questioning whether or not racism exists. This thread is about how to end it. I can't imagine we will end it in our great grandchildren's lifetime, but we can reduce it.

First, admitting it will not end it. It's not a matter of admitting it unless you're admitting that it's a problem that can and should be resolved. There are obviously people who don't think racism is a problem and probably never will.

Secondly, racism is driven by class warfare. For every one battle we win in a class war, we defeat thousands of racists agendas with it.

What you don't seem to get is that attacking racism on the level of racism is almost as racists as the racism you fight against. It's like using terrorism to win the war on terror. You're just as bad when you make your blanket statements about racial in equality when you don't know all the facts. I believe that was the point Sandra was trying to make. Reverse discrimination will not end racism any faster than denial.

Bill everyone does not believe they are racist and some are proud of being racist but the majority of people are not aware when they have fallen for an attitude that is racist.
When I got married and had my children my mother always said there are racist and bigots one is a disease and the other an illness. The disease scared her for my family's safety. She said bigotry was more common and when someone says how could you marry that man or have those children my mom would say tell them look how beautiful my family and children are why would I have not.

The white house is creating and invigorating Mideastern racism with their Terrorist label and if your not with us your against us is also racist. He has chosen his target based on geography-economics.
When Japan was progressing economically and buying large quantities of property in NY and the US there was a surge in racism easily promoted due to WW II memories still there to be refreshed.
We continue to have attitudes promoted by two world wars about Germany.
When we see successful dark skinned or native we still think they are one of hundreds. A large number of women still seek safty and validation by having(not sharing life with someone you love) a man.
I think Tele evangilist are a good example. Why give money to those in big houses and diamond rings and hundred or thousand dollor suits? I would give to a minister or preacher who is giving to others not taking for themselves( am I showing a prejudice?).

When we are led why do we follow?????

Your number 2 is already the case...The Variance is primarily in How Explicit each Nation
makes this Concept, Related Operations and Support Systems... Developed, Maintained and Improved, for Operationalizing the Golden Rule Principle to All Level and All Domains of Government...and thus the Social System...Politics must be Purposeful to gather a following...
Effective Politics Clarifies a Common Goal that also supports a lot of Individual Personal Goals...
that's what makes them common goals or Community Goals...This is a Person-Centered Community
Process to which Individual Persons choose to belong at differing degrees of Connective (the acceptable range is quite large).

To give means also to give up...are we as a people ready to do that?????

Activity to promote Appreciation of Racial Diversity is more effective and efficient than Activity
to Fight Racial Discrimination...Proactive efforts to promote Integration are more effective and efficient than efforts to fight Segregation...

I agree that many forms of racism are subtile to the extent that we often don't see it in ourselves. I like to call the more subtile forms of racism "prejudice". We all pre-judge. It's how we predict. It's part of learning. It's how we act on those prejudice notions that distinguishes the harmless assumptions from the harmful racist acts.

I'm not denying that BushCo may have a hidden racist agenda. The key word is, "hidden" if the agenda exist at all. By hiding a racist agenda behind inhumane acts that are claiming to target a region, government, religion, or class, a trap is set for those who accuse it of being racist. The first one to mention race is the first one accused of being racist. It's like saying "he who smelled it, dealt it", true or not.

That's why you combat the acts based on their level of inhumanity rather than the obvious races that they target. What's worse, the fact that there was a lynching, or the fact that it was a minority that got lynched?

Conscripting Feminism into the War on Terror is a new topic with article

about bringing feminist into the war on terrorism.
Perhaps we should remember Afghanistan and The taliban .
It fits in this discussion also because women had been trying to call attention to the Taliban abuse of women. They are a religious group that aided and supported bin Laden. We went in and left so quickly that the Hijab returned to the full covering Berka's. We left so quick that Pakistan politics become a part of the situation.

we were led to Iraq from Afghanistan; why did we follow?

It sucks to be held to your own ridiculous standards, doesn't it?

"I agree that many forms of racism are subtile to the extent that we often don't see it in ourselves. I like to call the more subtile forms of racism "prejudice". We all pre-judge. It's how we predict. It's part of learning. It's how we act on those prejudice notions that distinguishes the harmless assumptions from the harmful racist act"


So again why do we allow our prejudices to be directed into submission to idea planted that is racist.

I also want to clarify that the craving for power and money in the whitehouse was presented to the public as revenge for a terrible act. The revenge was built on fear and is now heading for IRAN and CUBA. We wanted to diminish a mans power in Afghanastan and end up at war in Iraq and fearing whitehouse war with Iran and now talk of regime change in Cuba.

If Karl Rove did anything he learned how to take those prejudice and turn them into fear.